D&D 5E Do you think they will go back to driders being a curse instead of a blessing?

Can't XP you, but this is excellent.

Cheers!
Kinak

If you are cursed then you are shunned so that doesn't really make sense. Drow see those cursed by Lolth as a mockery. Drow are very big into those that find disfavor with Lolth. Failure is the ultimate thing in drow society and most drow see failure as permission to kill the individual.
 

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out side of a mummy movie curses should not make you stronger...

if being turned to a drider is a curse then drider needs to be equal or less of a threat then drow...

If I can make an encounter with 2 Driders and make it a hard fight for 4 5th level characters, but average stat drow in 6-8 as a group is an Average encounter... I question the curse...

on the other hand if you say all Driders were powerful wizards and Warlords BEFORE... then it almost works... yea an average drow is CR 5, but one with 12 levels of wizard are a 16 CR... do getting down graded to a CR 7 or 8 is a curse....
 

out side of a mummy movie curses should not make you stronger...

if being turned to a drider is a curse then drider needs to be equal or less of a threat then drow...

If I can make an encounter with 2 Driders and make it a hard fight for 4 5th level characters, but average stat drow in 6-8 as a group is an Average encounter... I question the curse...

on the other hand if you say all Driders were powerful wizards and Warlords BEFORE... then it almost works... yea an average drow is CR 5, but one with 12 levels of wizard are a 16 CR... do getting down graded to a CR 7 or 8 is a curse....

There's a spell in one of the Forgotten Realms 3e books. I think it's FRCS, and it's in the Drow domain. You cast it on an ally and they get +4 Strength/Dex/Con and spider climb, plus all the drider penalties: large size (with undersized weapons) and, uh, yeah, that's it.
 

out side of a mummy movie curses should not make you stronger...

if being turned to a drider is a curse then drider needs to be equal or less of a threat then drow...


I'm not sure this logic holds up... Outside of the Mummy... what about Medusa, the curses of lycanthropy and vampirism, and so on. It seems there is just as much justification in myth and legend for curses that make you stronger as there are for ones that makes you weaker...
 

out side of a mummy movie curses should not make you stronger...

if being turned to a drider is a curse then drider needs to be equal or less of a threat then drow...

If I can make an encounter with 2 Driders and make it a hard fight for 4 5th level characters, but average stat drow in 6-8 as a group is an Average encounter... I question the curse...

on the other hand if you say all Driders were powerful wizards and Warlords BEFORE... then it almost works... yea an average drow is CR 5, but one with 12 levels of wizard are a 16 CR... do getting down graded to a CR 7 or 8 is a curse....

You should stop looking at it from a mechanical point of view. D&D is more than just an addition and subtraction game. What gives the game depth is the lore that comes with it. Doesn't matter if a drider gets +2 to all his stats, drow "in-game" don't know what a stat is. All they know is what being turned into a drider means. It means that you are a failure in the eyes of Lolth and you have been turned into a grotesque beast. Drow are still elves and they still favour beauty, especially females because they want to attract cohorts in order to expand their houses. Being a drider also means you become sterile and cannot breed. The social stigma is just as important as stats.
 

I'm not sure this logic holds up... Outside of the Mummy... what about Medusa, the curses of lycanthropy and vampirism, and so on. It seems there is just as much justification in myth and legend for curses that make you stronger as there are for ones that makes you weaker...

The problem is people thinking too much from a game perspective. Yes, being a vampire in D&D holds many benefits when you look at it from a purely "just playing a game point of view". Having eight arms and swinging eight weapons would be awesome to be honest, but add the social stigma too it and you would be a lonely and feared person because you would be considered a freak by most.
 

I'm not sure this logic holds up... Outside of the Mummy... what about Medusa, the curses of lycanthropy and vampirism, and so on. It seems there is just as much justification in myth and legend for curses that make you stronger as there are for ones that makes you weaker...

The curse of the medusa is really nasty. Despite the power (kill those you don't like) it's uncontrollable (kill everyone, leaving you lonely or at least only able to befriend those who can't see you).

The curse of the vampire is you must feed on human blood (whether you want to or not; even if you're an evil vampire you might have practical opposition to this) and you can't walk outside during the day without getting weakened at minimum.

The curse of the drider is drow think you're ugly. Also your touch AC is slightly worse when surprised or have lost your Dex bonus to AC.
 

The curse of the medusa is really nasty. Despite the power (kill those you don't like) it's uncontrollable (kill everyone, leaving you lonely or at least only able to befriend those who can't see you).

The curse of the vampire is you must feed on human blood (whether you want to or not; even if you're an evil vampire you might have practical opposition to this) and you can't walk outside during the day without getting weakened at minimum.

The curse of the drider is drow think you're ugly. Also your touch AC is slightly worse when surprised or have lost your Dex bonus to AC.
Yeah, real curses always come with terrible handicaps, even if they also grant power. The Medusa was once a beautiful woman cursed to ugliness and loneliness as punishment for her vanity; werewolves only gain their power when they lose control of themselves and may easily end up killing their own loved ones; and as (Psi) points out, vampires have their blood dependency and a quirky assortment of severe weaknesses.

Not that one couldn't come up with some severe handicap for the driders, but such a handicap hasn't traditionally existed. And we all know how the 5e team feels about D&D tradition...
 

The curse of the medusa is really nasty. Despite the power (kill those you don't like) it's uncontrollable (kill everyone, leaving you lonely or at least only able to befriend those who can't see you).

The curse of the vampire is you must feed on human blood (whether you want to or not; even if you're an evil vampire you might have practical opposition to this) and you can't walk outside during the day without getting weakened at minimum.

The curse of the drider is drow think you're ugly. Also your touch AC is slightly worse when surprised or have lost your Dex bonus to AC.

I guess being a pariah in a caste-based society is a curse in its own right, but its a very situational curse. It'd probably be easier to swallow if drow-society wasn't already full of slaves, repressed people, and pariahs.
 

out side of a mummy movie curses should not make you stronger...

if being turned to a drider is a curse then drider needs to be equal or less of a threat then drow...

If I can make an encounter with 2 Driders and make it a hard fight for 4 5th level characters, but average stat drow in 6-8 as a group is an Average encounter... I question the curse...

on the other hand if you say all Driders were powerful wizards and Warlords BEFORE... then it almost works... yea an average drow is CR 5, but one with 12 levels of wizard are a 16 CR... do getting down graded to a CR 7 or 8 is a curse....

Curses often provide some boon in exchange for a high price. And the fact that curses are more plot devices to make a moral point, the "price" is usually one that builds up over time or the bearer of the curse finds out is a lot harder to deal with than they thought.

Vampirism for example: eternal youth, heightened senses, increased strength, speed, resilience BUT you can never go out in the sun again, silver can kill you, garlic is poisonous, you can't enter a home uninvited, you can't cross running water more than 3 feet deep, and of course, the eternal hunger for blood (in some cases as limited as unbaptized virgins).

At first you seem to get a great deal of benefits, but then you start realizing how hard it really is to protect yourself from the sun, how rare it is to find an unbaptised virgin, avoid silver and garlic, and there's always the hunger.

For a drider lets see:
You gain great strength, you gain new abilities (bite, spiderclimb, perhaps a stinger or webbing depending on the material), large size (and it's associated bennies and drawbacks), and assuming you don't lose your mind, a revered place in Drow society, however....

Large size has it's drawbacks (not so stealthy anymore), no lower half means no mortal pleasures, and you are essentially now in the "public eye" of drow society which just makes you a bigger target for all those murderous little ursurpers. You require custom armor (which may not matter depending on your wealth) and disguising yourself becomes incredibly difficult (but not impossible).

I'm not sure if driders get any sort of extended life, but elves are pretty long lived as it is.

The biggest point and of course the moral of many stories about curses-that-seem-like-blessings, is that in the short run, it's a big gain, but in the long run the curse is indeed a burden.

Not that one couldn't come up with some severe handicap for the driders, but such a handicap hasn't traditionally existed. And we all know how the 5e team feels about D&D tradition...

I disagree, I think the handicaps have always been there, they just more socio-political than mechanical, which are harder to express in games that aren't running a by-the-book Drow society.

Of course if you're running the sort of game that allows player Driders, Vampires and Werewolves, I doubt you're much concerned with the penalties. Such games can be quite fun, but they have a very, very niche place in D&D gaming.

There's a spell in one of the Forgotten Realms 3e books. I think it's FRCS, and it's in the Drow domain. You cast it on an ally and they get +4 Strength/Dex/Con and spider climb, plus all the drider penalties: large size (with undersized weapons) and, uh, yeah, that's it.

The Drow of the Underdark book has the spell "Dridershape" http://dndtools.eu/spells/drow-of-the-underdark--93/dridershape--1127/
 
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