Do you want Tieflings in the phb?

[Green Knight]

Like most folks who take pride in a close-minded stance, the folks going on about Drizz't clones don't really have their standards thought out that well. It doesn't have to be a dual-scimitar-wielding ranger. Doesn't even have to be good-aligned. Any drow PC is, to their mind, a Drizz't clone. Indeed, do we not have folks in this thread implying that a tiefling PC is only a step removed from being Drizz't clone?

I knew a player who once made a character who started as a Drizzt clone, but then morphed into an even cheesier character. Note that this was in AD&D.

First he changed the race from Drow to Wood Elf, because Wood Elves got a Strength bonus. Then he went from a Ranger to a Fighter/Thief, because of Backstab, and his belief that Fighter/Thieves were just plain better than Rangers. Last but not least, instead of taking Scimitars, he took Katanas, which inflicted more damage than Scimitars. It was mind-blowing watching this guy work. He started with the base of making a Drizzt clone, and then tweaked him in the most munchkin ways he could think of.

No point to this story. I just thought it was amusing.

Incidentally, that character met his end during a game I was running in Myth Drannor. He got killed by an NPC from the Myth Drannor boxed set (a Halfling Thief). Did I mention that that player utterly despised Halflings?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Indeed, do we not have folks in this thread implying that a tiefling PC is only a step removed from being Drizz't clone?

Implying, heck, I came right out and said it, though with a caveat:

Tieflings as anti-heroes are only one step removed from cliched angst-ridden playing-against-type good drow.

Which is fine if that's how you want to roll, but it doesn't belong in the base core book for the game. There are plenty of supplements coming to devote to that sort of thing.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What else do they have? They are just humans with a bad attitude and look "cool."

Apparently, my players have much more imagination than yours. I've had elves which were not tree-huggers, halflings who weren't thieves, and dwarves who didn't grumble incessantly.

In fact, in the last game I ran, I had an all-warforged party except for their human Political Office ... I mean, wizard. And they all managed to be different characters.

I take it you've never played Planscape: Torment before, and met Annah-of-the-Shadows?

 

[variant]

If space is an issue, just drop a couple of the Tolkien retreads.

I nominate anything with 'half' in its name.

All the half-races shouldn't even exist and just go poof, but that doesn't mean they should go about adding exotic races to replace them. Hell, the Gnome isn't Tolkein-esque and there's talk of it getting the boot.

Elves and dwarves are in the 3e PHB and there aren't elf and dwarf feats in every book. Neither will there be Tiefling feats in every book.

4th edition is not 3rd edition. 4th edition is going to be about advancing in both Race and Class.

And there's nothing "Teen angst" about tieflings, it's the players that make the characters too. You can choose to play a tiefling any way you want. They don't even have to be "emo" they could be all cheery and noble and oblivious to the fact that they are in fact part demon.

Then what is the point other than to metagame the things for their abilities?

Apparently, my players have much more imagination than yours.

I take it you've never played Planscape: Torment before, and met Annah-of-the-Shadows?

So all your tieflings are Annah-of-the-Shadows ripoffs?

 

[ruemere]

Either add "Can breed with about any other humanoid race in your monster book" to special qualities of Humans or turn all Half-something races into templates applied to source races (template would contain specific listing of what special quality from one race can be traded for another, and which specific qualities are impossible to inherit).

I like the concept of halfbreeds, but I don't like turning them into separate races, especially since halfbreeds are quite uncommon (and considering the fact that most half-something races were inferior in execution).

Also (this very personal) I hate game design where some races are best at playing certain classes. So, please, say NO to strong-yet-dumb races, strongly magical races, super-agile races. Each race should offer a variety of various abilities, usable equally by all classes.

Finally, I'm mostly OK with human-only LG-only paladins. It's just that should not be expected to be paragons of chivalry and at the same time significantly inferior to fighters.
I'm also fine with nonhuman nonLG paladins... it's just that champions of a cause should be champions, not a fighter-wannabes. For some cool ideas on how to refresh this stale concept, check Monte Cook's Champion class.
Oh, I'm not saying that I like MC's treatment (to me, Champions are still too limited), but they are a step in the right direction. Just like Oathsworn.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Then what is the point other than to metagame the things for their abilities?

It's called role-playing, someone has a desire to pick a certain type of character they want to play.

So all your tieflings are Annah-of-the-Shadows ripoffs?

Is every tiefling a feisty girl? Are Kylie, Rhys, Neeshka, Alisohn Nilesia, Haer'Dalis or Enkillo the Sly anything like Annah? No

Is Laraunna and any elven character anything like Legolas?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So all your tieflings are Annah-of-the-Shadows ripoffs?

Uh, no. I'm just pointing you to a publicly-available, generally-well-known Tiefling who exhibits exactly 0% "Teen Angst."

In other words, I'm saying that your reasoning is unsound.

 

[Klaus]

What would you inherit from a Giant, except large feet?

Helloooo, Powerful Build!

A Giant scion (and there's a cool name for ya: Scion) would eventually gain stuff from Goliaths, Half-Ogres, Half-Giants, Eberron's Eneko or the norse Trollborn.

 

[grimslade]

I don't get this 'save space for something else' argument. What else do you want in the PHB?
More feats? More spells? Sub races? *yawn* At least a Tiefling or Aasimar has a little flavor rather than suburban dwarves or Beach elves. What is getting crowded out of a 300 pg PHB by having less than a page to the tiefling? Give me options for a character not another write -up of fireball except its made of ice.

 

[Xyxox]

Better to have gnomes than tieflings.