Do you want Tieflings in the phb?

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I don't get this 'save space for something else' argument. What else do you want in the PHB?
More feats? More spells? Sub races? *yawn* At least a Tiefling or Aasimar has a little flavor rather than suburban dwarves or Beach elves. What is getting crowded out of a 300 pg PHB by having less than a page to the tiefling? Give me options for a character not another write -up of fireball except its made of ice.

Indications from the "Races" article on the WOTC site are that race descriptions and related mechancis will take up more space than now, in part due to the ability to "advance" the race with new mechanics as you gain levels.

I'd gladly throw the tiefling under a bus to get an additional core class in the PHB ... even if it were the monk.

 

[Lobo Lurker]

Me? I'd gladly ditch the gnome for tieflings.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

The essence of D&D, be it deeply rooted in Tolkienisms as it is, should not IMHO be thrown away just for the sake of popularity and coolness.

To Hell with you.

D&D and fantasy is so much bigger than Tolkien, it makes me want to scream when I see people spouting this kind of crap.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Or Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner.

I assume Jennifer Garner must be blind. After all, how else could she marry Ben Affleck?

I'm not saying Ben Affleck is handsome, but I really feel it's the other way around. I've never seen the appeal of that lantern-jawed woman.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Would you people really feel comfortable if someone decided that they were going to play a Tiefling every single campaign?

Absolutely.

D&D isn't Tolkien. A tiefling doesn't seem out of place in the kind of fantasy that I enjoy reading about and playing with in my games.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

If he was willing to suck up the LA and the substandard hit dice, and be recognized as a member from a well-nigh-universally hated race or take steps to avoid same, I'd work with the player to get that done.

There was actually a neutral illithid NPC in the Spelljammer novels who could very easily be a PC. He got around with a hat of disguise when he wasn't solely among friends.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Implying, heck, I came right out and said it, though with a caveat:

Tieflings as anti-heroes are only one step removed from cliched angst-ridden playing-against-type good drow.

Which is fine if that's how you want to roll, but it doesn't belong in the base core book for the game. There are plenty of supplements coming to devote to that sort of thing.

As opposed to the not-at-all-cliched Legolas and Gimili clones? Give me a break. Every D&D race except gnomes and humans is ALL ABOUT playing up a cliche.

If this is even close to a popular enough type of cliche to justify the amount of indigestion it appears to cause those who want their game pure and unsullied by how other people like to play, then it very much does belong in the core books.

A lot more so than another 100 pages of the same cursed spell writeups that occupy a good third of the current PHB despite boiling down to maybe 5 pages of spell templates and 10 pages of actual unique spells.

 

[Doug McCrae]

In white box OD&D, Gary Gygax mentions the possibility of a balrog PC, so weird races are right there in the roots of the game. Viewed in this light, 1e is an aberrant blip where monster races weren't allowed. Then 2e brought them back in the splatbooks.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Eberron has an age of demons, long past. Greyhawk has quite a lot of fiends kicking about in Iuz and the Great Kingdom, in fact I believe its even rumoured publically that the royal family of the GK meddles in diablerie. So there is some precedent here.

I'm guessing the 4e back story will have the usual great and mighty empire, most powerful magics known, made many magic items, now in ruins, blah, blah. It will have been destroyed, obviously by hubris a la the legend of Atlantis. But before it was destroyed its inhabitants declined, becoming decadent a la Melnibone or the Roman Empire. They summoned many fiends and, being sick twisted pervs, had sexual relations with them. Hence tieflings, legacy of a once great nation's fall.

 

[demon_jr808]

I love Tieflings! I have to say they are one of my most favorite races 'flavor' wise. I've always had a fondness in my heart for characters that have a touch of evil or taint within them.

That being said, I don't think the Tiefling is an appropriate race to have in the PHB. Call me old school, but it feels a bit too esoteric to include and doesn't fit the 'generic' fantasy feel that I believe the Core Rules should have. Elves, dwarves, halfings, are staples in fantasy writing. In my opinion, Tieflings, not so much.