Do your combats take a lot of Real Time to play out? Why?

[Psion]

Interesting indeed. I'm guessing that the fact that most folks play at low levels equates with the less number of turns. At levels 1-2, you can easily die from weapon damage in 1 round.

I find that it goes down at high levels too, though. At high levels, the players can dish out a lot of highly concentrated damage, and/or have quick ways to resolve the battle (hold monster, etc.). I really have to tweak out a boss to get it to last longer than 2 or 3 rounds.

7th level -- which many profess is their sweet spot -- seems to take the longest to me.

 

[Rothe]

Not to go far off topic, but how long would people estimate a 3.x combat to take for say 6 1st level characters faced with 30 basic orcs? Rolling individually for each orc with no orc spell casters? I'm wondering because we've been trying a new system lately and something like this took about 2.5 hours using miniatures to keep track of where everyone was (with a few pauses to go over the system's options). I don't know how many rounds the combat was, at least 12 IIRC as reinforcements arrived, characters moved arounfd etc. The system is somewhat different in that about 2 good blows by a fighter type was required to take an orc out of action, or one reallly good one, or 4+ poor ones. We haven't tried smaller scale combats yet (hopefully very soon well try 6 character's on 1 monster) but I suspect that will take very little time before a decision is reached, i.e., retreat or dead monster.

 

[DethStryke]

In general, I play with a mix of new and veteran players in every group I've been in... so at any given time, someone doesn't know which one is 20-sider, what they have to roll to hit something, whether or not they can charge... while others will know what the best move they can make or most effective strategy will be at any given moment and take no time at all doing what they need to do for their turn.

Knowing the rules before your turn = faster combat.

There are some things that will always mean longer combats, but they have been mentioned already. More variables make them longer, without a doubt. Although when it comes to summoned creatures I have the same outlook as with spells (more on that below). Generally my groups like to throw in difficult terrain which changes everything in different ways... suddenly you can't make 5-ft steps, or your fireball spells have a chance to melt/burn your surroundings, etc. These nuances make things a bit more difficult to make quick decisions about.

Spell casting, I'm bias on. I'm currently playing a Wizard (9th level) and a Cleric (10th) in two separate groups... That's like having to memorize all of the spells in the PHB up to 5th level spells. Perhaps you have a brilliant mind that memorizes encyclopedias for fun, but I have trouble recalling the specifics for spells. Sometimes it's only remembering the range of effect (radius or diameter?), etc.. Since I tend to be creative with my spell casting (I live outside of the box, generally), those hard to remember specifics can be extremely important to the success or failure of my attempts.

On the flip side of that, this is why good spell book sheets are so very handy. Knowing I have a hard time with remembering the numbers at times, I make up for it by having the right notes that aid my particular issues. I reference the spells on other people's turns. My ADD allows me to keep track of multiple things at once, so I can keep up with the game and still read the spell descriptions. Again, it's about playing on your strengths and making allowances for your weaknesses.

 

[paradox42]

My group's PCs have been Epic for a little over a year now, and their combat routines are pretty well set- so battles don't often last long in terms of rounds. I think our average has been about 3 rounds for the past year or so, but every now and then we have a whopper of a combat that lasts several minutes of game time. On average, a combat round takes between 20-30 minutes to play out when everybody's paying attention and puts their actions in within reasonable time on their turn (we play on psionics.net, so typing speed is a factor- though one player figures out his attacks in advance and just copies/pastes the attack and potential damage rolls into chat when his turn comes up).

The longest combat we've had is actually the most recent one, which was both massively complex in tactical terms and in terms of game time. It lasted about two minutes (not counting Time Stops) in game time, but took us two and a half six-hour sessions to completely resolve, and that's not counting the time the party spent deliberating before combat and discussing tactics in advance (as well as, and this proved to be extremely important, summoning minions before the fight and setting up the buffs). The fight was between six PCs of 24th-26th level with better-than-average equipment and one NPC wizard of 28th level, and on the other side an Uvuudaum Sorcerer 10 and its four minions (each one an Element Creature Gibbering Orb). The fact that the NPC wizard, two PCs, and the Uvuudaum all had Spell Stowaway (Time Stop), and multiple Time Stops were used during the fight, meant that we actually played out several "sub-combats" during the main battle, and that added at least a minute and a half more of game time for those able to participate.

Fortunately, this was a battle the party had been building up to for years of real time, so everybody was expecting a massively epic fight to remember- and that's exactly what they got. All in all it was a pretty satisfying despite the slow resolution. It didn't really feel slow, except perhaps for those stuck twiddling thumbs during Time Stop sub-combats.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Spell casting, I'm bias on. I'm currently playing a Wizard (9th level) and a Cleric (10th) in two separate groups... That's like having to memorize all of the spells in the PHB up to 5th level spells. Perhaps you have a brilliant mind that memorizes encyclopedias for fun, but I have trouble recalling the specifics for spells.

I fully endorse cheat sheets for spells, both as a DM and as a player. If you think that playing requires a lot of legwork as to what spells can do, imagine the same from the DM's side, especially when controlling multiple spellcasters! When DMing, I try to prepare spell sheets in advance as part of normal stat blocks. I hate having to look things up; I do the same with special rules I know will come up in a given encounter. Fighting underwater? I sidebar a quick summary of the rules. Weather effects? Terrain effects? I have them in the adventure text, or I use my always handy summary sheets. Summary sheets are a DM's (and a player's!) best friend.

 

[DethStryke]

Re:Raven Crowking

*nod* I agree, especially as I started as the DM in my groups and did so for the first 10 years. I'm currently on a DM holiday.

The main issue as I see it regarding time needed in DMing the creatures with spells is the pitfall of making them smarter than they are... My wizard has a 19 intelligence, so he will probably be able to think of things easier and faster than I can as a person because *I* don't have a 19 intelligence. But... I have higher than a 12 by most accounts . Just because an Orc shaman can cast a few spells doesn't mean he's going to have creative mastery of them either... so you can get away with more common and straightforward applications of a spell, and/or an abbreviated list of available ones. That doesn't take any real time or energy. He's going to overlook tactical advantages and creative applications out of anger, fear, rage, lack of experience, etc.

I mean, when was the last time your common enemy spell caster got to rest and regain different spells? It just doesn't happen often, and certainly not enough to make it the norm. These are common shortcuts that DMs have to make to keep everything straight and flowing well. I typically have a stat box set up with just the list of spells s/he has memorized, and that's it. Nothing major, and all suited as one would expect that creature would have at the start of the day. Besides, it's not good form to outshine the players with every creature, just because they have the feats or attacks to do it... their (in)ability to think of these things in a six-second time span when they are being threatened don't normally allow for that.

OTOH, I also allow the players more time, when I DM, than I do the monsters/NPCs not because I think if every monster played at my "A-game" level that the players would have no chance (which is actually sometimes, albiet rarely, the case), but because it doesn't strike me as realistic OR fun for the PCs to do so. I don't have anything to prove so strongly that I would try to outshine the PCs every chance I get.

Now, if they are fighting Dragons, BBEGs, etc... then it's on and the time needed each round expands, because I'm doing chess-like future move thinking in my head.

But that should be expected... at least, it is in my head.

 

[Quasqueton]

More data from my game this past Friday:

Party: 6 combatants of ~7th-10th level

Combats:

4 monsters, EL7, 6 rounds, 19 mins (3.2 min/rnd – 19.2 seconds/combatant)

5 monsters, EL7, 5 rounds, 18 mins (3.6 min/rnd – 19.6 seconds/combatant)

5 monsters, EL7, 4.5 rounds, 14 mins (3.1 min/rnd – 16.9 seconds/combatant)

10 monsters, EL9, 11.5 rounds, 47 mins (4.1 min/rnd – 15.4 seconds/combatant)

5 monsters, EL7, 2.5 rounds, 9 mins (3.6 min/rnd – 19.6 seconds/combatant)

28 monsters, EL11, 8 rounds, 41 mins (5.1 min/rnd – 9 seconds/combatant)

Average mins/round for the total: 3.8 mins/rnd

3.8 mins/round = ~114 seconds for DM (who has far more to do), ~28.5 seconds per Player

This particular game session’s battles were very maneuver intensive – a mixture of close confines and wide spaces, with folks trying to cut off and control certain areas, and many combatants were invisible.

Quasqueton