Doctor Who s8e10 - "Dark Water" [spoilers]

[Bedrockgames]

She would be very, very busy doing that!

what Morrus said. I don't think she has to micromanage every single mind she harvests.

 

[MarkB]

She would be very, very busy doing that!

She already is doing it. The first person we saw harvested was from 19th-century England, and the second was from a Dalek war in the far future.

 

[Nellisir]

The Missy surprise was neat, in a Twist! kinda way. Honestly, while I was initially "whoa" from the Master revelation, I was much more excited about the possibilities prior to the revelation. There were so many female Time Lords it also could have been. I was rattling off the list: Romana, The Rani, Susan, the Doctor's daughter. When it was revealed to be a gender reversed Master it was almost a let down that it wasn't someone else.

This.

 

[Nellisir]

OK, I liked this episode. The Missy/Master revelation was a bit of a letdown for the reasons Jester noted; I'd like to see them make a bit of something new rather than reusing the same characters over and over.

I love Capaldi's doctor. He's an arse, but he's an arse because he's so...intense. His inner reality is so strong he has trouble relating to the rest of the world. He forces it to confirm to his expectations rather than vice versa. His line to Clara was a perfect reflection of this: he cares about her so much that it's irrelevant what she does.

The doctor is best when he can go over the top; when he's so intense and driven he tears down reality and rewrites it. Capaldi sells it better than any of the other recent doctors, Tennant possibly excepted.

 

[Mallus]

Something, Misty "Master" said: "Cybermen in Cyber space" makes me think, this is all happening in a virtual reality.

I thought that too, at first, especially given the whole "Clara tries to blackmail the Doctor, wait no it's not really real" scene at the beginning of the episode. It's totally Moffat-esque to foreshadow like that.

But I think what's going on is a bit more complicated. The Nethersphere scenes all take place in a virtual reality created by the Time Lord hard drive. The watery mausoleum scenes take place inside the Master's TARDIS, which is parked in St. Paul's Cathedral, sometime around present day.

My guess at the plot: the Master has been essentially stalking Capaldi's Doctor through time and space, ever since his regeneration, collecting (or just copying) the souls of people killed around him, ie people he couldn't save, storing them in a fake virtual afterlife.

He's also running a scam, ie the 3W Institute, on or around present day Earth, collecting bodies for a new Cyberman army. He's going to put the souls the Doctor couldn't save in them (I guess after getting them to voluntarily erase their selves -- which is what Danny Pinks about to do, or not).

It's macabre, and a tad too complex (but also, weirdly, kinda direct), but hey, that's the Master for you. He lives to eff with the Doctor.

Meaning most of what Dr Exposition, I mean Chang, says is rubbish -- but the Doctor says as much during their scene.

I'm pretty sure that all works out. Of course, Moffat may prove me wrong. If I am right, or right-ish, this season's metaplot would be the most coherent and well-done of his tenure as showrunner.

 

[Morrus]

But I think what's going on is a bit more complicated. The Nethersphere scenes all take place in a virtual reality created by the Time Lord hard drive. The watery mausoleum scenes take place inside the Master's TARDIS, which is parked in St. Paul's Cathedral, sometime around present day.

The dead minds are uploaded to the Nethersphere- a Time Lord hard drive - and then downloaded into new bodies.

My guess at the plot: the Master has been essentially stalking Capaldi's Doctor through time and space, ever since his regeneration, collecting (or just copying) the souls of people killed around him, ie people he couldn't save, storing them in a fake virtual afterlife.

She's taking all dead people. Danny, Steve Jobs, everybody. As she says, the dead outnumber the living, which makes for a great army.

He's also running a scam, ie the 3W Institute, on or around present day Earth, collecting bodies for a new Cyberman army. He's going to put the souls the Doctor couldn't save in them (I guess after getting them to voluntarily erase their selves -- which is what Danny Pinks about to do, or not).

Y'know, Michelle Gomez is most definitely a woman. Referring to her as "he" is a bit off.

 

[Mallus]

The dead minds are uploaded to the Nethersphere- a Time Lord hard drive - and then downloaded into new bodies.

Yep.

She's taking all dead people. Danny, Steve Jobs, everybody. As she says, the dead outnumber the living, which makes for a great army.

Ah, forgot that line. I think I willfully forgot it, because taking all dead people makes less sense, but this is a Moffat plot, so sense is kinda optional.

Y'know, Michelle Gomez is most definitely a woman. Referring to her as "he" is a bit off.

You're absolutely right - my bad!

 

[Nellisir]

Y'know, Michelle Gomez is most definitely a woman. Referring to her as "he" is a bit off.

Score one for makeup and costuming. I wouldn't have guessed she was younger than my wife. :/

 

[MarkB]

She's taking all dead people. Danny, Steve Jobs, everybody. As she says, the dead outnumber the living, which makes for a great army.

Assuming we can take those statements at face value - which is never a good bet when the Master is involved.

We haven't actually seen any great army of people inside the Nethersphere - nobody at all who's unconnected to the Doctor, aside from the boy Danny shot, and that could have been faked as part of the "make Danny reject his emotions" ploy. We haven't really seen a Cyberman army, either, beyond a few dozen.

 

[Morrus]

Assuming we can take those statements at face value - which is never a good bet when the Master is involved.

We haven't actually seen any great army of people inside the Nethersphere - nobody at all who's unconnected to the Doctor, aside from the boy Danny shot, and that could have been faked as part of the "make Danny reject his emotions" ploy. We haven't really seen a Cyberman army, either, beyond a few dozen.

Sure. But we can only go on what the script says. Sure, she might be lying, and it might be a Dalek plot or a mass hallucination or a billion other things. Maybe the Doctor is the Master. But for now, I'm going with what was said. If there's another twist and none of it's true, then, hey, Moffat successfully fooled me.