D&D 5E Does “Whack-A-Mole” Healing really happen in games?

[Asisreo]

You know a simple way to address this would be to say that healing word provokes an opportunity attack.

That's the crux of the strategy right? Fighter goes down - cleric reliably casts healing word on thier turn - fighter gets up and never has to make a death save. It's all dependent on that healing being reliable every turn - because as soon as it isn't, the Fighter is just a natural 1 away from death - and that will get them sooner or later.

That doesn't change healing word's reliability, it just punishes the player for using it. They'll still use it if its a critical time to do it, but now it costs them a spell slot, their bonus action, their once-per-turn leveled spell (not exactly accurate), and their HP's.

 

[DND_Reborn]

@Don Durito: Except you don't have an near-endless supply of slots for Healing Word so how reliable is it?

I really, honestly, don't see what the issue is with healing word... It hardly ever gets used or even prepared IME. But anyway...

It isn't the fact that PCs can get healed and back into the fight, the problems as I see them are:

1. there is no downside for having gone down... no lingering effect or penalty when you get back into the fight.
2. the amount healed is usually so little that just about any hit will put the PC down again and instead of pulling back for further healing, the PC insists on staying in and being a target.

For some people, #1 isn't a problem. For me, it is, so we added exhaustion and other things to represent that going to 0 HP IS a big deal, even if you get healed a bit.

#2 isn't as big an issue at higher levels when you can do stronger healing spells, but at lower levels it is a bigger problem IME.

For #2, you can emphasize how dangerous going to 0 HP and getting right back into the fight can be. Lots of ways to do this IMO. OR you can make it so healing is more effective (even at lower levels) so getting back into the fight isn't as "dangerous" but might be costly in some other fashion? Again, lots of ways to do this.

So, anything I am missing other than items #1 and 2 above?

 

[Don Durito]

That doesn't change healing word's reliability, it just punishes the player for using it. They'll still use it if its a critical time to do it, but now it costs them a spell slot, their bonus action, their once-per-turn leveled spell (not exactly accurate), and their HP's.

And they'd have to pass a concentration check or no spell - that's the interference with reliability.

 

[Dave Goff]

So, to me, the only part of this that isn’t just a great story is the dwarf literally falling down and getting back up. I’d be tempted to houserule that at 0hp you are dying, but not unconscious unless you took damage equal to at least a quarter of your total HP, and you have a level of exhaustion while at 0hp, and each turn can make a death save and do one of move, action, or bonus action.

Hell, I might even allow automatic death save fail in order to take a normal turn.

I like the idea of having a level of exhaustion. I've always thought it was a bit silly that people go from knocked out to up and fighting full strength in 6 seconds.

 

[toucanbuzz]

I really, honestly, don't see what the issue is with healing word... It hardly ever gets used or even prepared IME. But anyway...

It's far superior to Cure Wounds, which is my only beef with it. Ranged + bonus action + minimal (average 2) difference in healing. I've yet to see a caster fail to prep it that could, and in my current campaign, 2 characters have it, including a Life Cleric. If I were inclined to nerf it a bit, I'd make it the same range as Cure Wounds (touch), so the trade off in healing is bonus action vs. regular action.

1. there is no downside for having gone down... no lingering effect or penalty when you get back into the fight.
2. the amount healed is usually so little that just about any hit will put the PC down again and instead of pulling back for further healing, the PC insists on staying in and being a target.

For some people, #1 isn't a problem. For me, it is, so we added exhaustion and other things to represent that going to 0 HP IS a big deal, even if you get healed a bit.

I'd add #3 that (unless you're 1st level), whack-a-mole in a fixed-initiative round can, in some ridiculous fashion, be strategic against a boss / single big damage dealer in that a player can absorb absurd amounts of damage because excess damage is "discarded" (unless it outright can kill you by equaling your max hp). A single 1 hp of healing = bounce back up and absorb another 20 damage hit with little to no consequence so long as I know I'll get a heal.

It's this changed mechanic from the olden days (when the damage wasn't shed...if you reached 0 the DM kept counting to see if you're dead) that allows damage to be freely shed that bugs me to the point a mechanic is needed.

So, in some fashion, I came up with an amalgamation of 3E's Diehard feat (after 0hp, you can take a single action each round and must make a roll each round to "stabilize" or lose another hp, die at -10 (later your CON score)) + a cumulative penalty thanks to 5E's "discard the excess damage" rule (which I actually like and 3E didn't have).

I'm always looking for improvement, but at the moment, my players love the idea that (1) their bodies can't actually take much damage once a real hit occurs (aka you are out of HP), (2) they can keep acting at 0 hp even if with highly reduced efficiency, and (3) whack-a-mole gets you dead pretty quickly (aka you're on death's door).

 

[Don Durito]

Another thing that might be worth doing is secretly rolling a D6 at the start of combat. If the combat gets to the number you rolled everyone reroll initiative. Takes some of the certainty out of the initiative round.

 

[The Green Hermit]

Another thing that might be worth doing is secretly rolling a D6 at the start of combat. If the combat gets to the number you rolled everyone reroll initiative. Takes some of the certainty out of the initiative round.

Even if you don't have an issue with healing, this sounds like fun. My problem is that I would forget to change it. Lol!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A single one attack monster is the only problematic case... But that combat is already won before initiative is rolled. Anyway. A normal monster with multiattack can down the PC and then auto crit for an instant kill.
If that does still not solve the problem, try the easiest and least-punishing method of not erasing deaths saves immediately after getting up by a healing spell but only after a full round after that.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I like the idea of having a level of exhaustion. I've always thought it was a bit silly that people go from knocked out to up and fighting full strength in 6 seconds.

Adding a level of exhaustion is an easy fix we did for a LONG while and it helped stop the problem. I recommend it.

It's far superior to Cure Wounds, which is my only beef with it. Ranged + bonus action + minimal (average 2) difference in healing. I've yet to see a caster fail to prep it that could, and in my current campaign, 2 characters have it, including a Life Cleric. If I were inclined to nerf it a bit, I'd make it the same range as Cure Wounds (touch), so the trade off in healing is bonus action vs. regular action.

I don't know if I'd say that, but YMMV. It is only a d4 and each spell level increases the difference in healing by 2 points. Not a big deal, but those 2 points could keep the next hit from dropping the PC yet again if you can use Cure Wounds. The bonus action is minor, IMO... it is the range that is a bigger benefit as I see it.

I'd add #3 that (unless you're 1st level), whack-a-mole in a fixed-initiative round can, in some ridiculous fashion, be strategic against a boss / single big damage dealer in that a player can absorb absurd amounts of damage because excess damage is "discarded" (unless it outright can kill you by equaling your max hp). A single 1 hp of healing = bounce back up and absorb another 20 damage hit with little to no consequence so long as I know I'll get a heal.

Oh, good add! I didn't think of that one so I'm glad you brought it up.

So, in some fashion, I came up with an amalgamation of 3E's Diehard feat (after 0hp, you can take a single action each round and must make a roll each round to "stabilize" or lose another hp, die at -10 (later your CON score)) + a cumulative penalty thanks to 5E's "discard the excess damage" rule (which I actually like and 3E didn't have).

That is one way to do it. But like with items #1 and 2 from my post, you just have to find a mechanic that works to mitigate the problem.

It is just sad, IMO, that the default system creates a problem and tables have to come up with house-rules to fix a designed system of the game.

 

[Dragonsbane]

We have done exhaustion for a while and it works perfectly. Combined with only gaining a single HD every day, my issues with hit points and wack a mole have vanished.