Does 3E/3.5 dictate a certain style of play?

[Mark CMG]

To many people, "D&D" has absolutely nothing to do with the system. D&D is a brand with certain expectations, yet even these expectations vary from person to person.

For me, that expecation is to have the largest possible pool of players that play the same game. With each new edition, this hits a peak that drops off steadily as the modifications, supplements, and enhancements used fragment what type of game D&D is in their mind at any given time.

 

[Shadeydm]

I am not saying it dictates this style of play but I do believe that it is encouraged and rewarded.

Ps. I am also one of those people who were outraged that Rangers suddenly all go the ability to dual weild based off the exploits of a stupid drow ranger.

 

[billd91]

Every time I see someone post about how they want to make a fighter/rogue/barbarian/ranger/assasin/invisible blade/shadowdancer I have to swallow the bile rising in my throat.

Then perhaps you'll look with sympathy on those of us who have to swallow a lot of bile when we listen to complaints like yours that blame the tools for the behavior of the players.

People play D&D in many different ways. Some are attracted to getting the most out of the mechanics, some are not. Let them play their way while you play your way. Don't read the threads that don't appeal to you. And don't let anybody else's idea of how to make the game fun prevent you from doing it in your own way.

 

[billd91]

I am not saying it dictates this style of play but I do believe that it is encouraged and rewarded.

Ps. I am also one of those people who were outraged that Rangers suddenly all go the ability to dual weild based off the exploits of a stupid drow ranger.

Then I take it your outrage started with 2nd edition? Because that's where it started. Until that drow came along, every ranger I had experience with in D&D had focused on archery.

 

[Storm Raven]

Although it is tempting to to go on and on citing examples of how and why this edition of the game rewards and encourages this sort of behavior I will instead refer you to the "Character Optimization Board" on the WoTC DnD Website to make the case for me.

And, had the internet been around in 1982, you would have found the exact same thing provided for 1e. Sure, you can min/max, munchkinize, rules-aywer, and power-game your way through 3e, but no more than you could in 1e. Arguments that are premised on the idea that players doing these sorts of things are somehow new to 3e, or even more common using 3e, are, in my experience, simply wrong on the facts.

Every time I see someone post about how they want to make a fighter/rogue/barbarian/ranger/assasin/invisible blade/shadowdancer I have to swallow the bile rising in my throat.

I suppose it should not surprise me that someone playing a character that they would enjoy playing would cause you so much revulsion. After all, D&D isn't about fun, it is about . . . well, if it isn't about fun I'm not sure why one would play the game.

Of course, playing a fighter/rogue/barbarian/ranger/assassin/invisible blade/shadowdancer would almost certainly be a suboptimal choice, so I guess it isn't min-maxing or power-gaming that bothers you. Perhaps you would care to elucidate what bothers you about suboptimal character build strategies.

 

[Shadeydm]

And, had the internet been around in 1982, you would have found the exact same thing provided for 1e. Sure, you can min/max, munchkinize, rules-aywer, and power-game your way through 3e, but no more than you could in 1e. Arguments that are premised on the idea that players doing these sorts of things are somehow new to 3e, or even more common using 3e, are, in my experience, simply wrong on the facts.



I suppose it should not surprise me that someone playing a character that they would enjoy playing would cause you so much revulsion. After all, D&D isn't about fun, it is about . . . well, if it isn't about fun I'm not sure why one would play the game.

Of course, playing a fighter/rogue/barbarian/ranger/assassin/invisible blade/shadowdancer would almost certainly be a suboptimal choice, so I guess it isn't min-maxing or power-gaming that bothers you. Perhaps you would care to elucidate what bothers you about suboptimal character build strategies.

I think that is a colossal strecth to think anything could have been done with ADnD that would have even remotely approached the character optimization board for this edition which epitomizes the rules bloat and power creep that is 3.xE dnd.

It makes me sad to think someones enjoyment of DnD hinges upon playing a fighter/rogue/barbarian/ranger/assassin/invisible blade/shadowdancer.

 

[Shadeydm]

Then I take it your outrage started with 2nd edition? Because that's where it started. Until that drow came along, every ranger I had experience with in D&D had focused on archery.

Correct you are, I played 2E and had fun but never forgave the designers for the curse of Drizzit. The worst part was finding out the only reason he could dual weild was because his daddy the fighter taught him...DOH!

 

[ruleslawyer]

I think that is a colossal strecth to think anything could have been done with ADnD that would have even remotely approached the character optimization board for this edition which epitomizes the rules bloat and power creep that is 3.xE dnd.

Character optimization in the same way? No. Rules bloat and power creep? Do you remember a particular hardback volume by the name of Unearthed Arcana, circa 1985, that introduced two classes that made fighters look like utter wimps, a character generation method that involved rolling as many as NINE dice, drop 6, playable drow and duergar (which, without the LA mechanic, were simply better than elves or dwarves, even without the drow magic resistance), and some insanely overpowered spells (stoneskin, tempus fugit)? Or perhaps a year and a half later when Oriental Adventures introduced even MORE powerful classes and weapons?

 

[Storm Raven]

I think that is a colossal strecth to think anything could have been done with ADnD that would have even remotely approached the character optimization board for this edition which epitomizes the rules bloat and power creep that is 3.xE dnd.

It was much easier to optimize characters in 1e than in 3e, because of the power disparity inherent in the dual-class/multiclass rules and the inherently unbalanced nature of demi-humans combined with several overly powerful combinations of magic items. This does not even begin to explore issues raised by Unearthed Arcana and subsequent books. The fact that you think it could not have been done in 1e simply leads me to beleieve that you are looking back to 1982 with rose colored glasses.

It makes me sad to think someones enjoyment of DnD hinges upon playing a fighter/rogue/barbarian/ranger/assassin/invisible blade/shadowdancer.

Who said it hinges on that? On the other hand, why is it that a character that someone enjoys playing causes you to experience stomach distress? More to the point, why is such a suboptimal character design causing you distress? Is it just that the holy writ of 1e is somehow distrubed by playing unusual characters?

 

[Shadeydm]

Who said it hinges on that? On the other hand, why is it that a character that someone enjoys playing causes you to experience stomach distress? More to the point, why is such a suboptimal character design causing you distress? Is it just that the holy writ of 1e is somehow distrubed by playing unusual characters?

Well first off I find it amusing that you keep referring to it as suboptimal as if it were a real build plucked from the COB instead of a hastily thrown together list of classes and Prcs to mock some of the stuff listed on the COB.

Secondly I am amazed that you really think that the power cherry picking that goes on in those kind of builds is really about a cool concept when we all know in fact that its all about OMG by cherry picking these classes and Prcs I can get AC99, 23 attacks per round and +200 to hit and damage and +50d6 SA im soo awsome who cares if it makes no sense for someone to actually be a fighter/ranger/rogue/ninja/assasin/warmage/druid/battledancer.