Does 4e limit the scope of campaigns?

[Spatula]

This sounds really good but it isn't explained like this anywhere in the DMG or PHB...

I suppose it should have been spelled out clearer, but the DMG does allude to it in the encounters chapter and probably elsewhere as well. It seemed pretty obvious to me, at least.

Frankly I don't see how anyone could look at the open lock table and conclude that the same lock is harder to open depending on the character's level. The table lists lock quality by tier, not lock DCs by player level.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I suppose it should have been spelled out clearer, but the DMG does allude to it in the encounters chapter and probably elsewhere as well. It seemed pretty obvious to me, at least.

Frankly I don't see how anyone could look at the open lock table and conclude that the same lock is harder to open depending on the character's level. The table lists lock quality by tier, not lock DCs by player level.

*Nods* Same, though then again if one already has that mindset as to how the game runs that may make it more obvious. As it was in my case, and probably yours Spatula.

 

[Murad]

Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition, failure the critical.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

The purpose of gaming is to experience and immerse oneself in the setting at hand, and that includes having consistent in-game physics.

This is an extraordinarily dangerous statement, and if I was feeling less charitable about your intended meaning, I'd go so far as to say that it's objectively and demonstrably wrong - but even then, you've still inadvertently brought up an important point.

The purpose of gaming is to have fun.

Let me repeat that.

The purpose of gaming is to have fun.

This is The Most Important Thing anybody can know about gaming. 85% of Internet Arguments about D&D are because somebody forgot this.

Gaming is not inherently about killing things and racking up the XPs, but it's one of many means to an end of having fun, which means it's Totally Cool to game like that. A big portion of what I enjoy in gaming falls into the category of "kick in the door, kill the awesome monster, take his awesome loot".

To the best of my knowledge, the only time it's wrong to have fun is when your fun is coming at the expense of everybody else's fun.


On a related subject, any use of the phrase "roll-playing" is implicitly derogatory to a legitimate gaming style.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

4e is like chess. Chess is a fantastic game, but not particularly adaptable. There are variations on it, but those are "not chess".

This. Anytime somebody lists 4e's limited range of effective game styles as a flaw, they're missing the point. It's better for your system to do a few things really well than for your system to be mediocre at a lot of different things.

 

[GnomeWorks]

This is an extraordinarily dangerous statement, and if I was feeling less charitable about your intended meaning, I'd go so far as to say that it's objectively and demonstrably wrong - but even then, you've still inadvertently brought up an important point.

I stand by my original statement - it is my take that the purpose of gaming is experience and immerse oneself in a fictional setting. I also happen to enjoy this, which makes the game fun.

Some would say that the purpose of playing football is "to have fun." I would argue that such a definition is incorrect; there is a goal in such a game, and it is not "to have fun." Those who enjoy such a pasttime generally have fun in pursuit of the goals of their chosen game, but the having of fun is not the direct goal, it is a by-product.

 

[Murad]

This. Anytime somebody lists 4e's limited range of effective game styles as a flaw, they're missing the point. It's better for your system to do a few things really well than for your system to be mediocre at a lot of different things.

No. My game I want everything good, like the GURPS game or the old editions. Why fun to do one thing? This is not fun.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

The last essential component of a D&D game is fun...
...
Different people have different ideas of what's fun about D&D. Remember that the "right way" to play D&D is the way you and your players agree on and enjoy.

Roleplaying games are entertainment; your goal as GM is to make your games as entertaining as possible for all participants.
...
There is only one way to roleplay: the way that achieves the best balance between the various desires of your particular group.

I'm pretty sure there was something about this in the 3.5 DMG, too, but I have to find mine first.

 

[Obryn]

See this is a definite problem, as those charts on page 42 are the "improvisation" charts and there is no mention of anything close to what you've stated here on that page.

In fact I would even go so far as to argue that, if what you stated is the actual intent and not just one interpretation... then why is there an example on page 41 of the DMG where it explains that searching a room to find "anything valuable in a chest full of junk" is always an "easy" test... not a set DC dependent upon the world...let me guess this is a different more tricky chest and different more tricky junk as you go up in level?? Well if this is the case why on earth isn't it clearly laid out or stated anywhere?

I don't know if I'm having a Dr. Midnight moment, but I think he's one of the guys who's worked on the game...

-O

 

[GnomeWorks]

I'm pretty sure there was something about this in the 3.5 DMG, too, but I have to find mine first.

If I did not enjoy the purpose of gaming, as I have defined it, then I would not game. If the purpose of gaming is "to have fun," then why would anyone - in their right mind - not join in?

I know what it is that I want out of gaming. If I get what it is that I am looking for, I am having fun.