D&D 3E/3.5 Does 4e sound more D&Dish to you than 3e did?

[Korgoth]

Most of the announcements so far make it sound less and less like D&D. It sounds more and more like Exalted with some Gurps or Hero thrown in. This will please a couple dozen internet Gurpsophiles, but in the main I think they're turning away from what has made D&D the market leader for nigh on 30 years.

3E already seemed like it was written by people who didn't understand D&D. However, because of their care in preserving some "sacred cows" (i.e. valuable resources that they probably didn't understand but knew they couldn't get rid of) the amount of damage done by the authors was limited.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that 4E is going to flop. The initial core book sales will be high, but I don't think it's going to last once people start playing. That's just a gut prediction, though.

 

[Gwathlas]

Does 4e sound more D&Dish to you than 3e did?

It's perhaps a strange question, but there are a few things that I'm hearing about that are getting me really excited. You know, real Sense of Wonder time. (Feywild - stupid name, but awesome concept).

And some of those things are pushing buttons and going, "Hey - that's what D&D is all about!"

The weird thing is these things haven't exactly been in previous editions. Or rather, they were... but in the sense there were new things in previous editions. The Great Wheel was cool when I first imagined what it could be when reading the AD&D Player's Handbook. Ditto the Drow in the Giants modules. Oh, and the Plane of Shadow? Ultimate Coolness. My sense of the Plane of Shadow was mainly derived from the Gord the Rogue books, but hey!

A large part of the coolness, however, was because they were new areas to explore. Then they were good, but we'd been there. And eventually familiar.

So, I see 4e as inputing a lot of that *new stuff to explore* that we had in earlier editions.

(Not to say that 3e didn't have cool new stuff - but it came mainly in the late 3.5e supplements and invention of Eberron).

Listening to the "Monsters, Monsters, Monsters" podcast, I was really excited to hear about how orcs are going to become a little more unpredictable the first time you face them - you're not going to know everything about them. (My very first D&D memory is of watching a group come up against Killer Bees and Green Slime. One thing I really miss about 3e is how Green Slime hardly got used, and really wasn't written up very well).

I also feel there's also something of a turning away from D&D as exploring purely D&D-tropes, and re-examining the sources that led to D&D in the first place. These myths... they're what led me to D&D, and old-style D&D drew heavily on these myths and other great fantasy stories for inspiration.

When you come down to it, I feel the heart of D&D is the basic combat system. You know: roll d20 to hit, there's an Armour Class, there's hit points, and you lose them based on some strange die when you get hit? Everything else is just chrome on the top.

So, things are shifting around? As long as I have my AC and hit points, and we're all adventurers pursuing quests in a magical world... I think I'm going to be playing in a really fun and cool version of D&D.

Of course, I could still be proven wrong. But I'm an optimist, aren't I?



Cheers!

D&Dish, not at all more starwars and dragons or wowstarwars and dragons. I'll have plenty of money available for new games like Conan as I won't spend another penny on 4eech garbage.

 

[Wormwood]

3E already seemed like it was written by people who didn't understand D&D. However, because of their care in preserving some "sacred cows" (i.e. valuable resources that they probably didn't understand but knew they couldn't get rid of) the amount of damage done by the authors was limited.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that 4E is going to flop.

I can only pray that your prophetic abilities are as accurate as your assessment of 3e.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Man, I totally feel you on the green slime. It breaks my heart that so many modern players have no idea what a threat it once was.

 

[Celebrim]

Ummm... so you are saying it reminds you more of something because its more new, novel, unique, and different from the thing it reminds you of?

You know, I can understand it giving you a sense of wonder. I can understand you liking the changes. I can understand you getting excited. And I can understand how being excited and having a sense of wonder can make you feel more like you did when you first approached the game.

But I don't think you can say that it is more like D&D because it is different from D&D. So, praise it for being new if that's your thing. But don't try to have your newness and your rhetorical cake too.

 

[Wolfspider]

Doesn't remind me of D&D very much at all, actually.

 

[Riley]

Does 4e sound more D&Dish to you than 3e did?

To answer the title question as it's phrased, maybe. Won't really know until we see the darned thing. But from what little we hear, I'm quite hopeful that the sense of wonder you describe will be recaptured in the new edition.

I loved 3e because it opened up endless character creation possibilities, and let me make the characters I envisioned without all the house rules and add-ons that 1 and 2e required. I can't say that the 3e monsters or the fairly flavorless implied setting ever really got me excited. Mostly, I got excited when new book for the old settings were published.

If 3e was all about the characters, it sounds like 4e is all about trying to make the challenges
and the world exciting. As long as the character-building flexibility still rocks, that'll be great.

Man, I totally feel you on the green slime. It breaks my heart that so many modern players have no idea what a threat it once was.

I still love, loathe, and fear green slime. My favorite 1st ed character, a mid-level wizard, used to carry a backpack containing a large metal box containing a sealed clay pot, containing a small crystal vial of green slime. And lots of padding between.

It was like walking around with a bomb: you could use it destroy anything almost anything animal, vegetable, or metal, but fall into one pit trap and fail a couple item saving throws, and that poor wizard was liable to quickly have his spine turned to slime.

 

[Howndawg]

In some ways, 3e didn't seem very much like D&D. The moving itself away from medieval fantasy into dungeon punk, the idea that magic items could be bought in stores, NPC classes among other things were very un-D&D like when they were unleashed upon us. Yet the game was still fun and enjoyable even if it didn't feel like D&D at times. I expect 4e to be the same way. It might not feel like D&D at times, but it will still be fun.

Howndawg

 

[jollyninja]

more D&Dish? In the regards you later reffer to yes. I am excited to face monsters that I am not intimately familiar with the mechanical workings of, having used them in my own games. that is always a temporary thrill though. The magical feeling of the unknown is a finite resource, lasting only until you are familiar enough that you know what to expect from those orcs. If they have figured out an easy way to make it so that I'll never be completely sure what to expect from those orcs, It will be the greatest thing that has ever happened to D&D in my opinion. familiarity breeds contempt, I was actually hoping that this announcement would come.

as for turning D&D in to an MMOish game, they already did that, it was called 3e. you have to upgrade your gear every few levels, there's only a couple ways to go with each class that allow you to keep up with the assumed power level of the CR system. I'm seeing less of this in 4e so far.

Mechanically, 4e appears top be nothing like older editions (meaning 2e and previous) but the feel of the fluff seeme to be leaning toward the ground covered by a lot of the first edition stuff. It seems to me that they are applying mechanics to things that were previously just assumed. of course a guy using a sword presents a different challenge then a guy using an axe. In previous editions it was glossed over, now it'll actually be that way, other then axes crit less often but do more damage when they do.

To me D&D is a game that is simple to teach, covers the fantasy genre and involves fantasy archetypes killing things and taking their stuff. I'm guessing 4e will give me that. All I want from the game is a chance to bust out my comically bad scottish accent every once in a while. If dwarves can use axes, elves can use bows and nobody wants to play a gnome, It's D&D for me.

 

[DaveMage]

Nope, certainly not.

(Not saying that's bad or good - consumers will decide that.)

Ditto.