Does a divine version of Fox's Cunning exist?

[Dracorat]

OK yeah, I just looked it up and you are right on that one:

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.

Which would imply that it's possible to change a spell usually reserved only for one caster type to that of another type.

That being said, you would still be activating a spell that's not on your class spell list and thus would require a UMD check.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That being said, you would still be activating a spell that's not on your class spell list and thus would require a UMD check.

Right. As a general rule, a Divine Scroll of Magic Missile is merely an interesting curiosity.

But I'm guessing you don't know about the Archivist and his ability to scribe a scroll of any divine spell into his spellbook as a Spell Known.

-Hyp.

 

[Tiberius]

Well, there's an aspect he neglected to mention:

While a Wizard-11 and a Cleric-11 can get together and make a Divine scroll of Planar Binding and an Arcane scroll of Heal, neither of them can use either (without UMD), as the result is either: A) Not on their class list, or B) Not of the appropriet type. Argueably, a Cleric with the Magic domain would have a chance... but that's about it.

Now, it works great for spells that are on both class lists, such as Comprehend Languages, but otherwise? Not so much.

Given that this character is an archivist, it works just fine for her. IIRC, they can scribe any divine scroll, regardless of on whose list it appears.

Edit: Blast you, Hyp!

 

[Dracorat]

A spell known isn't necessarily a spell on your class's spell list.

Does that class specifically state that any spell in his book is automagically on his class spell list? If so, that would be quite -- umm -- banned from my games at least.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A spell known isn't necessarily a spell on your class's spell list.

Does that class specifically state that any spell in his book is automagically on his class spell list? If so, that would be quite -- umm -- banned from my games at least.

You'll find the Archivist in the WotC website's Heroes of Horror excerpt.

Prayerbook: Unlike a cleric, an archivist does not receive his daily spell complement from whatever deity or cosmic force he worships. Rather, he must seek out and collect new spells much as a wizard does, but from such esoteric sources as holy tablets, ancient steles, or other magical scriptures. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his prayerbook except for read magic, which archivists can prepare from memory.

An archivist begins play with a prayerbook containing all 0-level cleric spells plus three 1st-level cleric spells of the player's choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the archivist has, the prayerbook has an additional 1st-level cleric spell. At each new class level, the archivist gains two new cleric spells for his prayerbook; these can be of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new archivist level). At any time, an archivist can also add spells found on scrolls containing divine spells to his prayerbook, but he must make any rolls and spend the time required (see Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook on page 178 of the Player's Handbook). The archivist can learn and thus prepare nonclerical divine spells in this fashion but the two free spells he gains for advancing in class level must be selected from the cleric spell list.

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

Well then people really wouldn't like them in my campaigns.

They have no spell list at all. I hope to hell that UMD is on their skill list. =)

 

[Hypersmurf]

They have no spell list at all.

Spellcasting: An archivist casts divine spells, drawn primarily from the cleric spell list although he can eventually uncover, learn, and prepare noncleric divine spells.

Compare with:
Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

Looks like a spell list to me - the cleric list, plus anything else in his prayerbook...

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

Whew. I think that's weaseling that in there, but for the sake of my players, I'd probably allow it.

However, if I were being completely strict about it, I'd say that still means they have no spell list. Being able to cast a spell from a list is different than having a list of your own.

 

[Sejs]

Well then people really wouldn't like them in my campaigns.

They have no spell list at all. I hope to hell that UMD is on their skill list. =)

They do have a spell list: the cleric spell list. They just also have the ability to expand it via their prayerbook.

"An archivist casts divine spells, drawn primarily from the cleric spell list although he can eventually uncover, learn, and prepare noncleric divine spells."

As it was said shortly after the class came out: the wizard is dead, long live the wizard.

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, if I were being completely strict about it, I'd say that still means they have no spell list. Being able to cast a spell from a list is different than having a list of your own.

There are a lot of base classes out there that cast spells from the druid list, or the cleric list, or the sorcerer/wizard list. Would you consider all of them to be listless?

-Hyp.