Does a publisher/author's interaction here influence your purchases?

[philreed]

On the reverse side, meeting someone before getting involved in online forums also has lead me to see the person for who they are and not make a snap judgment about them based on their posts.

Excellent point. Unfortunately, I suspect most messageboard users never get the chance to meet publishers/authors. And a few minutes of face time at a convention booth isn't really enough time to learn anything.

 

[tensen]

What's the difference between those two guys? Well, it's that Gareth paid me what we agreed on. Neal didn't. Gareth paid me from deadline one. Neal released a first draft without my consent, didn't notify me and didn't pay me for a full year. Gareth sent regular statements and breakdowns. Neal didn't respond to multiple emails until I unilaterally offered a kill fee at an incredible discount for my services.

Oh -- and Gareth pays other people. Other people feel they've been screwed by Neal.

But Neal's nice, so who cares, right?

I apologize that this needs to be cleared up here.


That isn't exactly the truth of the matter. You worked on my company's first product. I over estimated profits and what I could afford to pay. You offered to settle for a lower amount. I gratefully accepted with thanks. And really appreciated the issue.

Did I screw you? No.. I paid you money for your work. I didn't pay what was originally negotiated. But you offered a change of contract and I agreed, and promptly paid that amount (via wiretransfer to your account), which was pretty much all I could afford for the work.

Oh, and published without your consent. You had a contract to be paid after publication. You did a work for hire. And you submitted a manuscript to me. What consent wasn't given?

Now. That was fact. You can be annoyed with me. Upset at me. Tear the book appart like you've been doing for years and I've been civil about. However, be correct in what you write instead of trying to make a slanderous remark.

Yes, I am a nice guy.. most times... unless I feel like being a rat basta..
I do make my mistakes. I don't make millions. I pay my staff and freelancers reasonable rates. Sometimes I miss payment deadlines. Sometimes my freelancers miss their deadlines. I'm not perfect. I do try and correct those flaws.

Oh, and do note. You offered a settlement at a lower rate, not a kill fee. If it had been a kill fee the product would not be available at current time, which obviously isn't the case. If I paid you a kill fee and then kept the product available, you'd have had legal grounds to bring me to court.

 

[eyebeams]

I apologize that this needs to be cleared up here.

I'm not afraid of the truth, Neal.

That isn't exactly the truth of the matter. You worked on my company's first product. I over estimated profits and what I could afford to pay. You offered to settle for a lower amount. I gratefully accepted with thanks. And really appreciated the issue.

And conversely, after months of delays I figured the only way I could recover anything from that was to stop entertaining delays and make an offer.

Did I screw you? No.. I paid you money for your work. I didn't pay what was originally negotiated. But you offered a change of contract and I agreed, and promptly paid that amount (via wiretransfer to your account), which was pretty much all I could afford for the work.

"Promptly" is a rather subjective term, Neal. From release (the release you didn't tell me about, remember?)

As for a contract: I never signed anything. In fact, I'm not even sure you have exclusive rights, because I do not recall granting them in our exchange. Because of our email exchange and the settlement I accepted once I came to the conclusion that you couldn't afford me, I have no problem with your attempts to sell it. It's lousy work because you tossed up a rough draft I'd sent to you for development. Nobody should buy it because it's half-done garbage, but that's an artistic objection.

Oh, and published without your consent. You had a contract to be paid after publication. You did a work for hire. And you submitted a manuscript to me. What consent wasn't given?

It was, in fact, published without my consent. I never submitted the contract (and in fact emailed you to indicate that I had isues with it) and you never even notified me that you put the file up. You certainly weren't in a hurry to pay me, given that it took a full year of pestering. You recieved my consent after you made final arrangements for payment.

Honestly: Do you really think it's normal and ethical to sell something:
1) Without rendering payment upon publication until someone has bothered you about it for a year?
2) Without having secured any rights until the author has nagged payment out of you?
3) Without even telling the author?

'Cause you did that. Then I bothered you over email and took a miniscule fee so I could wash my hands of other complications, such as notifying RPGHost.

Now. That was fact. You can be annoyed with me. Upset at me. Tear the book appart like you've been doing for years and I've been civil about. However, be correct in what you write instead of trying to make a slanderous remark.

Please do not accuse me of slander, Neal. You have not pointed out one instance where my description of events is in error.

Oh, and do note. You offered a settlement at a lower rate, not a kill fee. If it had been a kill fee the product would not be available at current time, which obviously isn't the case. If I paid you a kill fee and then kept the product available, you'd have had legal grounds to bring me to court.

It couldn't be a kill fee for Net of Dreams because you'd sold the thing for a year before bothering to pay me anything. You did, however, employ me to write a setting section on Asia. As I personally interpret it, my correspondence at the time notes that you paid the settlement to resolve that as well.

 

[RodneyThompson]

If an author does not develop a thick skin from all the criticisms of his work, even unwarranted criticisms that usually leds to having unnecessary comments to his competency and intelligence (i.e., personal attack), and lash out, I would be concerned but I wouldn't ignore him nor his works. Of course, this led to many authors NOT to visit messageboards again, and why some of the already silent ones have valid reasons not to visit in the first place.

Hi. I hope you don't mind if I chime in on this one. I don't work for a company or anything nifty like that, and most of you don't know who I am, so maybe I have a bit of a different perspective on this one. But I'd like to comment on the above, and mearls's addendum.

It can be tough at times for designers to come onto these boards. At least, it can be tough for me. For those of us that don't go straight to the top it's hard to have a thick candy shell, especially about what amounts to an artistic endeavor. Mike will chastise me for saying that RPG publishing is an artistic endeavor, countering that game design is more of a science, and perhaps rightly so. But writers, even game designers, put just enough creativity into their writing that their works are reflections of their raw talent. Coming onto a message board and getting chewed on by fans, well, it doesn't do the artistic heart a lot of good.

That having been said, I spend every day on these damn addictive boards because I believe that consumer feedback makes you a better designer. Thus far I have written five books for Wizards of the Coast and only one of them didn't have some influence from feedback garnered from communities like these (even then there may be some subconscious influence as well). Everything I write is colored in some way by "Are people going to like this?" questions, and where do I get that info? These boards. I have a blog where I ask for feedback. Designers do themselves a disservice by not coming onto these boards. It's hard at times (I personally had a heckler on the WotC forums that responded to literally every post I made regarding questions about d20 Future just to say that we did a poor job on the book) but you've got to overcome that and keep at it.

As such, as a designer/publisher/whatever you come onto these boards and are representatives of your particular organization. If you work for a publisher and engage in heated online debates that end up angering people, you MUST expect for there to be fallout in the sales arena. You represent your company, and while you might say "But why not buy books I didn't work on?" the fact of the matter is that your company employs you and if I don't like the interaction I have with you then I must reconsider why I would buy products from a company that would employ you. It's no different from consumer interaction in the real world: if I shop at a store that employs crappy clerks, that says to me that the store endorses (or, at least, doesn't reprimand) such behavior, which makes me not want to support that store. For us wacky freelancers that represent no company it is doubly important to behave courteously; in essence, my own career becomes my company, and if I bark at you for being critical of 101 Uses for a 10-foot Pole I shouldn't expect you to buy the next book I work on.

But ya know what? On a grand scale it doesn't really matter. Unless you're a superstar, most gamers have never heard of you. On these boards things get skewed because, well, we care enough about gaming to talk about them on message boards. We invest more in our games than Joe Dungeon Master that just buys the books and gets on with it.

I just think that designers represent more than themselves when they come on the boards, and should maintain a level of professional courtesy when online. Sometimes we have to put up with the mudslinging in order to also get the good feedback. Thankfully, this is what happens for the most part.

 

[frankthedm]

I have purposly avoided several products based on veiws and actions of developers. I skipped out on a ton of 3e material due to numerous authors participating in a charity work that I felt the proceeds were being misplaced.

Biased people make biased product, which i won't support. The only white wolf material i ever bought at retail was Freak Legion, the rest I obtained was always second hand [I love the storyteller system, but have no tolerance for thier leanings]. The only other time i went back on principle was when FFG admited a blue planet{one should not let marine biologists near scifi material- see stardrek 4] hardcover was only worth 5 bucks.

 

[BryonD]

eyebeams,

If Dark Quest published a product that was interesting to you, would you buy it?

 

[mcrow]

Yes, it does influence my RPG buying habits.

As I have stated in other threads, I buy products from publishers who are jerks. What makes a person a jerk is different for each person. Some people don't care if publisher are jerks. So far there I have a short list of publishers that I will not buy from because they are jeks, but it turns out that they publish games I wouldn't play anyway. So no big loss. I will not support in anyway a publishing jerk, elitist, or someone who spams the boards about their products.

I'm much more likely to take a look @ a publishers games if they come across as a cool and respectful person. If i see something on their list I like, i'll buy it. If they come out with something later that looks cool I will likely check it out.

 

[GVDammerung]

An author or publisher’s behavior on an internet message board has absolutely _no_ bearing on whether or not I will buy their product.

I’m playing a game and no author or publisher has even been at my table. Their personalities are then irrelevant to the play of the game. Only their content matters. If they provide good content, they are succeeding in the only way relevant to my play of the game.

I also find that internet messages do a poor job of reflecting the actual person. You loose any sense of nuance on an internet messageboard. The internet is terrible, even with emoticons etc., of conveying humor, wit and sarcasm of less than the scathing variety. That most messages are composed on the spot and off the cuff only makes matters worse. Some “pros” who I have met entirely belie their internet “public persona,” some for the better some for ill. The same goes all the way around.

 

[tensen]

Please do not accuse me of slander, Neal. You have not pointed out one instance where my description of events is in error.

Well sir. I do not believe I have slept with you... Nor would I talk about it in public, because I'm not that sort of gentleman.

Since that is out of the way. The only other definition of screw that I can guess you meant was that I took advantage of you or cheated you.

Under your standment, you had a dispute with the contract. Yes, I did indeed go ahead and release the product while the negotiation was still underway. I did that because the other people involved in the project that did sign their contracts on time were due payment and it was the only way I could go about doing it. (It was after all my first product and well I hadn't thought it through what releasing the product before I had all the contracts in place meant. I had figured we could finishs up whatever little discussion you need to make on the contract before too long and everything would be fine.) I couldn't very well pay you on a contract that you hadn't yet agreed to exactly. Since by accepting the payment you would have been agreeing to the contract.

You... however negotiated your contract at the time of settlement. You instigated it. And you had the terms. In fact you could have done some serious requesting at the time, since I really had to handle the contract (I had no way to tell you no deal) since I had it outstanding and had already released the product. And I was as I said, quite appreciative that you handled it easily for me. Boy was I surprised afterward the way you responded to things. You hadn't seemed upset at the negotiations. You acted politely. I figured things were a done deal.

You set the terms. I agreed to them. And as said at the time of the situation. This matter is now settled. I imagine hopefully before some moderator comes and locks the thread that we just derailed. Sorry folks.

Eyebeams if you wish to discuss it further via PM or email that is fine. It was 4 years ago, so if you are still harping on it, I guess it was something big to you and you never made it clear to me.
If you wish to keep going on that the product sucks.. thats fine, thats your opinion. If you wish to saying we don't put out good products, thats also your opinion.

 

[tensen]

eyebeams,

If Dark Quest published a product that was interesting to you, would you buy it?

Strangely enough I had bought his products from Adamant to support him, even though I don't normally buy Adamant.
Dang, does that make me a nice guy, or just plain dumb?