Does a publisher/author's interaction here influence your purchases?

[mythusmage]

OK, ok then. MythusMage is a swell guy, too.

I don't drink, beer.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Which makes me think.

Okay, it seems that I was wrong and many people are influenced by the posts of publishers and authors. Does that mean that those publishers and authors that only post to promote their products are actually safer from hurting your impression of them since they don't get involved in discussions? After all, things are a lot less likely to turn ugly if all you ever do is pop onto EnWorld to announce a new release.

Well, posts influence me, but not just because someone has a different opinion than mine. The inability to recognize other opinions as valid and argueing rudely about it is a better example.

I mean, really, if you're steadfast in your opinion on some political matter or whatever, and someone doesn't buy your product because of that stance, then you probably wouldn't want them getting your material anyway.

It may be "safer" to simply post releases, but only if someone is continually pushing the line otherwise. If the choice is between "be rude and alienate customers" vs "don't post" then sure you're better off not posting. But, there's a third option, where you can be engaged in a conversation, while still being polite and professional. That third option is IMO better than simply not posting.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm not going to give my hard-earned cash to someone I think is a bastard. I don't want to encourage people like that to avoid starvation or purchase health insurance by giving them the funds to do it with. On the other hand, you can be the nicest publisher I've ever met, and if your stuff is boring, I'm not going to buy it.

 

[Vocenoctum]

More importantly, what internet customers in particular fail to realize is how insignificant they are in the total pool of customers. Having easy access to the publisher and a bullhorn doesn't grant you special status. I really won't know, notice, or care if you decide to stop buying from me.

With the caveat of course that no publisher can afford to be such a complete unprofessional prick that it drives *everybody* away. But I think what folks are really getting at is opinionated asshattery, which is as likely to endear some folks as it is to irritate others (as Gareth already pointed out).

It's two sides of a coin though really. If you can write criticism off as simply "internet idiocy", then you're missing some valuable customer response IMO.

From recruiting for online games, I find the written word are actually pretty good for showing you the mentality of someone. If someone posts about how bad GrimTales is in a half-literate manner, disregarding him is fine, but if someone levels some criticism of the product in a logical manner, then it should be taken as seriously as any other avenue.

And, the thing is, I've seen you politely discuss your product when such issues were raised. Presenting the arguement in such a manner that it's mostly the opposite of how you actually act (you don't generally confront criticism of your product as just internet commando work) is not exactly helpful. From what I've seen of your posting, you have a thick skin for questions of your own work, but you get defensive about other peoples work, rising to defend them in ways you don't act when it's your own product...

As opposed to someone on a Mage thread that consistantly attacked and denigrated anyone that disagreed with how the product was done. Denying there is a counterpoint, telling people their opinion is just flat wrong. These things affect my buying decisions.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Another issue that has come up with me recently, is all the "industry dying" threads where publishers and authors deflect any blame from their product with a myriad of excuses for why there's a slump for them.

There's plenty of reasons for a D20 Slump, but seeing a publisher unwilling to admit where their products failed leaves me with the impression that they don't really know what the market wants. Why would I buy a product from someone that is sure the only things that work are things I don't want?

The other thread showed some of this, with the discussion of whether product X was "d20 generic" or not. If people want stuff that's for D&D, but there's a d20 product that's too specific, they may not consider it to BE "d20". Telling them they're wrong doesn't deal with the issue of how to make such products accessible to the customer and give them what they want.

The industry is altering to adapt to the marketplace, but in their own way. They're moving away from what some people want and telling us that they know better, then deflecting blame when products aren't doing as well. Or at least that's how the situation comes across to me personally more often than it should.

 

[philreed]

Another issue that has come up with me recently, is all the "industry dying" threads where publishers and authors deflect any blame from their product with a myriad of excuses for why there's a slump for them.

I don't know if others agree with me but I have seen some products that should have performed better in the distribution channel than they did. Denizens of Avadnu, as an example that's fresh in my mind, should have done much better -- and if it had actually made it to stores in any serious numbers I believe that it would have.

While I can agree that product choice (the type of products to create) definitely has an impact on sales I think it's just one small point of a much larger problem.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I don't know if others agree with me but I have seen some products that should have performed better in the distribution channel than they did. Denizens of Avadnu, as an example that's fresh in my mind, should have done much better -- and if it had actually made it to stores in any serious numbers I believe that it would have.

While I can agree that product choice (the type of products to create) definitely has an impact on sales I think it's just one small point of a much larger problem.

That's mostly what I mean, the industry's shape is due to a lot of small problems, and maybe a few central issues. To see a publisher fixate on one problem and continually decry it as The Cause, it's just irksome. Getting defensive and going after fans that disagree with the idea like it was some personal war, it's a major turn off.

 

[Theron]

Yes, and no. I'm far more likely to be influenced by business practices I've learned about via online conversations and forums than by an individual's conduct. The thing folks forget on both sides of the equation is that forum conversations are a very imperfect medium. I've run into people online I absolutely despised, only to find out that in person, they were absolutely great once you can discern their tone of voice and mannerisms. However, I don't think remembering this is entirely the responsibility of the reader. I think that we need to keep it in mind when we're writing as well to not assume that people will get it when you're being sarcastic or if you're already harried and posting on instinct.

To pick on Gareth, because he's a friend, he can be a right bastard. But he can also be a right charming bastard and is a hell of a guy. Then again, maybe I just get on well with right bastards, since I've never had a problem with another notable one in Sean Reynolds.

Gareth and I had a rather legendary blow-up on RPG net about three years ago. Ug-lee. Especially since we both had circles of friends who took up our banners and escalated a simple disagreement into a board-wide flamewar. After a couple of months, we traded a few tenuous emails, decided that we respected each other even if we didn't agree on a few choice items (out of the vast majority of things we DID agree on), and decided to try a live and let live approach. A few months later, we met face-to-face at Origins and got on quite well. Now I host Adamant's message board.

So I guess my point is, people are generally a lot more complex than their online persona. But I think everyone needs to remember that not only about others but themselves as well.

 

[Wasgo]

Which makes me think.

Okay, it seems that I was wrong and many people are influenced by the posts of publishers and authors. Does that mean that those publishers and authors that only post to promote their products are actually safer from hurting your impression of them since they don't get involved in discussions? After all, things are a lot less likely to turn ugly if all you ever do is pop onto EnWorld to announce a new release.

If that's all an author does, I know I'll probably ignore their work. I personally have a bias towards the largers companies, so I'll always check out WotC, Green Ronin, etc. When it comes to the smaller companies, they have to make an impression in order for me to check their work. Since a lot of the smaller releases don't normally get talked about here at first, the only way I'll be aware is if they join in conversations. But if all they're doing is advertising, I'll treat them like advertisers and ignore them.

 

[BryonD]

I don't know if others agree with me but I have seen some products that should have performed better in the distribution channel than they did. Denizens of Avadnu, as an example that's fresh in my mind, should have done much better -- and if it had actually made it to stores in any serious numbers I believe that it would have.

While I can agree that product choice (the type of products to create) definitely has an impact on sales I think it's just one small point of a much larger problem.

Everybody says this book is great.
But there are always exceptions. A single great book not doing well doesn't answer for the market as a whole. And in this specific case I think it is even less meaningful. As you said, it didn't make it out in "serious numbers". I certainly didn't see it. So it is hard to say that it's performance is reflective of anything other than accessibility.
On top of that, a great product by a small company that most people have never heard of is just going to be behind the 8 ball. It can seed the company's reputation for future products. But without a pre-established customer base, there is a lot that just comes down to luck.

Anyway, I think that is a pretty special case with other variables involved.

There is still the matter of other companies saying things are going south and not seeming to be willing to look to themselves at all.

On a tangent, one pattern I have noted in a few cases is some authors seem to confuse trying sell what they want to write with trying to write what others want to buy.