the Jester
Legend
Absolutely not.
Does a Setting need gods?
- Thread starter ceiling90
- Start date
Absolutely not.
You don't need gods, strong beliefs are enough. Worship to planar entities for example. You make offering to earth elementals for a good harvest, sea and air elementals for a safe ocean voyage. Emultate the deeds of one's famous ancestors (valenar Elves of Eberron); the ideals of freedom, justice, honor, and discipline; sanctity of life, blood, sentience. Concepts such as chance (Ifni from uplift), change, wealth, the City. Aspects of nature, trees, ground, sun, moon(s). Aspects of knowledge, the spoken word, the written word, the song, the dance, the act of creating art. Every tuesday, the town gets together in the meadow with their canvases and paints whatever they see, bringing them peace, relaxation, and contentment, and the knowledge that the world exists for them to enjoy.
Kaodi
Legend
I read or heard once that there was supposedly an ancient Mesopotamian civilization that did not believe in gods. They were, however, obsessed with death.
A couple of things:
1) Be sure to distinguish between " there are no gods " and " there is no such thing as gods " . They have different implications.
2) If " there is no such thing as gods " it would be odd, I think, to have any sort of super powerful being that anybody worshipped, even demons. After all, from a religious perspective, the primary difference between the cult of a god and a cult of a demon or titan is the latter are " not gods " . If there are no gods, whatever powerful creatures are worshipped in there place are, for all intents and purposes, gods.
3) ...I do not really think it is plausibly to have a pre-age of reason sort of society without some kinds of supernatural beliefs and superstitions. There may be no gods, but that does not imply less superstition on the part of the average peasant.
4) 3 is kind of weak compared to 1 and 2.
5) There is no 5.
A couple of things:
1) Be sure to distinguish between " there are no gods " and " there is no such thing as gods " . They have different implications.
2) If " there is no such thing as gods " it would be odd, I think, to have any sort of super powerful being that anybody worshipped, even demons. After all, from a religious perspective, the primary difference between the cult of a god and a cult of a demon or titan is the latter are " not gods " . If there are no gods, whatever powerful creatures are worshipped in there place are, for all intents and purposes, gods.
3) ...I do not really think it is plausibly to have a pre-age of reason sort of society without some kinds of supernatural beliefs and superstitions. There may be no gods, but that does not imply less superstition on the part of the average peasant.
4) 3 is kind of weak compared to 1 and 2.
5) There is no 5.
Well, here's the long and the short of it. My campaign, in where this question pertains is something of Sci-fi meets Myth, something of an Urban Arcana meets Star Ocean; it's where science reigns, but occasionally trips up in areas where it can't explain. But that's not the point exactly of why I asked the question.
In many of the RPG worlds, PoLland, Iron Kingdoms, Zeitgeist, FR, and etc; the Gods are active and are relatively important to the functioning of the universe. If they aren't already corporal in some part of the setting universe, they're at least able to leave massive, if epic ramifications in their wake. From the Zeitgeist's death of the Elven goddess, to the death of the Elven goddess in Iron Kingdoms. The tinkering of DL gods in how magic and the world functions, to the literally epic battles of heroes fighting Gods, Demons, and other Entities which control the setting's cosmos.
Yeah, I'm not down with that.
I'm not really thinking in a way, that a setting doesn't need "gods" in the matter of religions, cults, or superstitions. People by nature build, project, and procreate these things. Whether they're real? No, I don't have to give a definitive answer, but I'd rather not give the answer that Worshipers of X have a real living god which can smite their foes.
It's true that, that same worshipers might be worshiping a demon; which can in fact be a being with more power and might that a normal mortal man or other known alien may have. While it could be considered a God, it's not on the same level as something like Asmodeus or Bahamut in the scheme of things. It's still quite kill-able, and relatively mortal. It's no real god. The heroes can't off the gods, like Lolth or Bane or the Raven Queen, because I feel that these are esoteric things, symbols, rally points for the belief, a bastion for faith, rather than something real that can be killed.
I also don't like the idea that something like that can be killed, or die or have some sort of ramification in the setting.
So far, I've had more thoughts on it, and I've decided on two or three "religions":
1) a religion that believes they should follow the plans and prognostications of the Ancients. While the Ancients aren't exactly revered as gods, it still fulfills that niche of keeping the faith in the unknown and having belief in its consequences. Not to mention, Ancients themselves are gone.
2) A religion that focuses on the idea that the planet that the campaign is based on, is alive and vaguely sentient. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I think in the end, it's up to who ever is running the game. But personally, I won't say.
3) I dunno. I can't quite imagine a religion that would catch on with billions of people from thousands of planets, where it's a jumble of peoples and culture. What single idea could feasibly unite them into a coherent or incoherent dogma? I dunno.
4) Much like regional religions, a few races in the campaign have homegrown beliefs, ranging from ancestral worship to diefication of authority figures, or immortalizing ideals like money and ruthlessness.
But I am very disinclined to have Zaramal the Goddess of Race X do something like die, and royally screw them over. Or show up and do battle with the heroes cause she's been a very naughty goddess indeed.
But otherwise, the question still stands. I mean, I voiced my thoughts after reading a lot of responses, I'd still like to hear more. It's just something that struck me after reading some settings.
Oh as for swears, I think something like "Ancients Alive!" or "Mayari's Dark Eye!" should still be good. Otherwise I like words like "frell', "frunge", "zham", "zhell" and other silly interjections would work as swears.
In many of the RPG worlds, PoLland, Iron Kingdoms, Zeitgeist, FR, and etc; the Gods are active and are relatively important to the functioning of the universe. If they aren't already corporal in some part of the setting universe, they're at least able to leave massive, if epic ramifications in their wake. From the Zeitgeist's death of the Elven goddess, to the death of the Elven goddess in Iron Kingdoms. The tinkering of DL gods in how magic and the world functions, to the literally epic battles of heroes fighting Gods, Demons, and other Entities which control the setting's cosmos.
Yeah, I'm not down with that.
I'm not really thinking in a way, that a setting doesn't need "gods" in the matter of religions, cults, or superstitions. People by nature build, project, and procreate these things. Whether they're real? No, I don't have to give a definitive answer, but I'd rather not give the answer that Worshipers of X have a real living god which can smite their foes.
It's true that, that same worshipers might be worshiping a demon; which can in fact be a being with more power and might that a normal mortal man or other known alien may have. While it could be considered a God, it's not on the same level as something like Asmodeus or Bahamut in the scheme of things. It's still quite kill-able, and relatively mortal. It's no real god. The heroes can't off the gods, like Lolth or Bane or the Raven Queen, because I feel that these are esoteric things, symbols, rally points for the belief, a bastion for faith, rather than something real that can be killed.
I also don't like the idea that something like that can be killed, or die or have some sort of ramification in the setting.
So far, I've had more thoughts on it, and I've decided on two or three "religions":
1) a religion that believes they should follow the plans and prognostications of the Ancients. While the Ancients aren't exactly revered as gods, it still fulfills that niche of keeping the faith in the unknown and having belief in its consequences. Not to mention, Ancients themselves are gone.
2) A religion that focuses on the idea that the planet that the campaign is based on, is alive and vaguely sentient. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I think in the end, it's up to who ever is running the game. But personally, I won't say.
3) I dunno. I can't quite imagine a religion that would catch on with billions of people from thousands of planets, where it's a jumble of peoples and culture. What single idea could feasibly unite them into a coherent or incoherent dogma? I dunno.
4) Much like regional religions, a few races in the campaign have homegrown beliefs, ranging from ancestral worship to diefication of authority figures, or immortalizing ideals like money and ruthlessness.
But I am very disinclined to have Zaramal the Goddess of Race X do something like die, and royally screw them over. Or show up and do battle with the heroes cause she's been a very naughty goddess indeed.
But otherwise, the question still stands. I mean, I voiced my thoughts after reading a lot of responses, I'd still like to hear more. It's just something that struck me after reading some settings.
Oh as for swears, I think something like "Ancients Alive!" or "Mayari's Dark Eye!" should still be good. Otherwise I like words like "frell', "frunge", "zham", "zhell" and other silly interjections would work as swears.
catastrophic
First Post
See to me, that's part of what makes gods awesome, and different from just some kind of big, powerful dude.
What if killing the god of death means nobody dies anymore? Or what if killing them changes nothing? Maybe it will just drive all their priests mad, or stop all their prayers from allownig the dead to rest in peace?
That's the kind of ramifications a PC would ponder when entering a conflict with such an entity, which is not going to happen when they're killing a Really Big Giant or an evil space whale or something.
Literally, the only thing that could bring them together- comunication. All those planets, how do they comunicate? What if they, or may of them, saw that act itself as sacred?
I mean
, imagine if we were able to comunicate with thousands of other worlds, with travel a much harder and less common event. I think a lot of people would look at the galactic comunity that resulted as the ultimate achievement of sentient life.And what if this comunication grew increasingly difficult, or costly? What if these many comunities went through a period of exchange and sharing of information and ideas, art, science, history, stories of all kinds, entertainment- a golden age- but then the cosmos changed, and that comunications network was put in peril?
Sure, some people might want to close their eyes to the cosmos, but a lot of people on all sorts of worlds, could see that comunication as sacred, and see the work to overcome barriers to comunication, logistical, cultural, and political, as a sacred work.
Such a movement could be called The Word, or The Dialogue. Outsiders might view it with suspicion, especially in a setting with virtual technology, cybernetic mental comunication, and other ides that could lead to fears of a 'hive mind' or some kind of control being established.
Radicals in the movement could even push for such an approach, and who's to know- the conspiracy nuts might be right, and the whole thing might just be a front for an effort at galactic mind control. The culprit? A rogue ai? An unknown alien race from beyond the rim? Or perhaps the galaxy's first spontaniously generated higher inteligence?
Are you sure you don't want to put a god in your setting?
WalterKovacs
First Post
In one of the 3.5 campaigns, I was a bard that took the chameleon paragon path and thus gained access to divine spellcasting abilities, and in 'faking' my devotion, invoked the Flying Spaghetti Monster as my diety. Near the tail end of the bigger adventure, the Paladin and Cleric were each summoned, in dreams, before their gods and tasked with important duties for the climactic battle against our BBEG, but also for their future plans. My character ended up being summoned to stand before the FSM ... quite a suprise. The campaign ended soon afterwards, but it was likely it would have turned out to be a trickster god (like the Traveller) or perhaps an powerful non-diety (devil, demon, old one, etc) trying to trick me, and others, into worshipping him ... but the cover story at least was that basically belief created and sustained dieties ... thus just one believer 'inventing' a god, created him, and that if I could convert others, he (and therefore I, as one of his 'clerics') would grow in power, etc.
