Does any one else miss Planescape?

[Psion]

I just always felt it was a munchkin playground.

Spoken like someone who obviously never looked to close at the setting.

The 1e planes are a munchkin playground.

PS is not.

Man that sounded snotty. Sorry.

Maybe I should say it just wasn't my cup of tea.

Yes. But from all appearances, you have never tasted the tea. A bit like my 6 yo daughter who decides she hates things she has never tasted.

 

[Blacksad]

I miss planescape...

As others have said, considering how much IP WotC has already released in MotP, Web enhancement, Dragon Magazine and probably in the MM II that is supposed to focus on CR10-20 creatures, it's unlikely that WotC license this line.

Though a city book on Sigil by WotC seems possible.
Nonetheless considering that they said that books such as Guide to Hell and warriors of heavens got better sales than most planescape products, we probably won't see any books with the planescape trade dress.

Well, if I was at WotC here what I'll do (this might explain why I'm not at WotC ):

Considering that the MotP got the best score for a d20 product at ENworld, I'll think that their is a good customer base worth suporting.

Looking at the city book in the d20 market I'll see that every such books claims to be easily usable in any fantasy setting. Well, then I'll produce a product with personality that can't be easily inserted, but one that will allow the customer to insert anything in it (that way it doesn't require that the customer has already a homebrew setting to be used, nor will the customer with a published setting fear to buy the product as it won't alter his beloved setting).

Then I'll look into planescape and decide what will sell, then I'll decide to release a cities of doors line. Yes cities, independant books each on a single city. Things like MoF 192 pages fullcolor softcover.

First release, cities of doors: Dis

A plane wide city of devils! After all, Legion of hell is one of the most popular product, so this one must be a seller. You might allow devils with some human blood to allow friendship between some of those (and explain why they get a classes for people who don't like monster with levels of wizard), tiefling, half-fiend, human, and many other creatures that have landed here. The DM won't have to focus on evil things the PC might do(and they don't have to be evil, think ravenloft for an idea of the ambiance if they are good) and the consequences (a problem in many evil campaign) as a lot of critters here already do it, and do it better than the PCs, campaign could focus on dealing with creatures worst than devil in nature that lurk deep in the sewer. The sewer, the same places where portals to the abyss and anarchs hide, good adversary for cops-like adventure. With a plane wide dark city it would be easy to produce a survival campaign, and it might be a good resource for DM in SF setting who have planet-wide cities, or for those who like the cyberpunk genre.

Second release: cities of doors: the city of glass

The "Sigil of the Elements", an ancient city of Marid (who need to get their flying ability back), it will allow to introduce arabian terminology and see how customer might react to a 3rd edition Al-Qadim book.
It's a city within a glass dome on top of a giant iceberg in the plane of water, I'll list all the district and you'll see why it must work in 3rd edition.
Ale Distrcit, dwarves and gnomes inhabitant, does it need more information?
Alcazar, the Marids (and janns) district, they have no power in the city, it's a kind of noble district.
The Berg, merfolk place.
Central District, humans that deals in transportation and lodging.
Coral District, sea elves focusing on trading and entertainment.
The deep, kuo-toa district, their buisness is bounty hunting.
Icelake, inhabited by nixies, dealing with tourism and aquaculture.
Jeweler's district, an halfling district.
Drake's End, a whole district of half-dragons!!! they focus on law and government.
Reverie, the "entertainment" quarter, it's a district build on a cloud above Icelake, managed by cloud giants, its inhabitant includes nereids, sirine and others...
Sharktooth, the coliseum of the sahuagin (they deal in hunting too)
Wormtown, the magic shop quarter (a very good things in 3rd edition to have such a district in a city) managed by ormyrrs, a race of worm-like creatures.

Once customer have been tricked in this new lines of product, the third release: Cities of Doors Sigil.

This is the one that will perhaps need the most tweaking, depending on your tastes. Personaly I'll think the author would need to look in geography book on how european cities such as Paris or London evolved without order, you still find similar logic in those cities (though, you still can't find a straight street as opposed to the vast majority of fantasy cities, but that's another rant), and it would be better than claiming that you can find anything anywhere but that some trade secluded themselves in district (I don't see how temples could agglomerates with each other for exemple). I wouldn't mind if they forget to include the changes that faction war and die vecna die had on Sigil.
Otherwise, Sigil is the planescape setting, you'll get the cant the personality, prestige classes for every faction, and perhaps rules likes those in the planewalker handbook on how ideas can really affect things (perhaps using something similar to void point in Rokugan?).


Now, if WotC want to steal my idea, I ask that they send me every d20 products they'll do, up to the release of the Sigil book (that would be one, two or three year of free RPG product, I can dream ).

 

[Junkheap]

It amazes me to see people bashing planescape. Most likely they don't get it, or they are used to playing basic settings that don't even compere to PS. Nothing TSR produced or WOTC for that matter, comes close to the complexities of PS. I personally think it was more of a grown up setting. It made you think before you act. No other campaings ever had and never will have the PC's scared beyond ercognition to attack something because they didn't know what it is or who it is. It was this mysteries like this that made it an imaginitive and awe inspiring place.

The factions, i loved. I personally think they were great. Some of my players didn't really buy into them, but then they picked the indeps. No big deal, they don't play into the philosophy. I like the cant. You don't have to use it if you don't like it.

PS was FAR from the norm of regular gaming. Nothing in any other campaign world can even compare to the scope of PS. It doesn't limit you to anything, and the adventures always have an epic feel to them, no matter what level. I loved everything about PS, and for the most part so did my players. PS and ravenloft were by far the most favourite of the settings of our group, and also AL Quadim. We didn't play Darksun much, but that was also fun. All due to the fact, it is not a generic playground like greyhawk or FR.

 

[Tsyr]

Then why are you here? You don't have to buy it. At least when I bitch about DL, I do it coming from the perspective of someone who played in the setting and hated it for its own qualities.

Because the thread is a question open to anyone and he has as much right to be here as anyone else?

As for myself, no. I do not miss planescape. I didn't like what it did to the planes, first of all... Planes should not (as I see it) be a valid environment for levels 1-XXXXXX adventuring. Planes loose their mystery and "wow" factor in Planescape. They are "just" another place to go in Planescape, a factor I don't like. I always felt that planar adventures should be EPIC... Which they just aren't to me in Planescape.

I also don't like the factions, or the whole "mood" or "style" of planescape.

I've played planescape, I just strongly dislike planescape. MotP is sufficient for my planar needs.

 

[Psion]

There's got to be a difference between something you use as a setting and something you just adventure in every now and then. That difference is what made it great.

Yup.

And for the cant... I personally like it, but if you don't you can just trash it and the setting works perfectly all the same.

I didn't mind it in game. Having it plastered all over the game mechanics text bothered me. I actually preferred the later books that stopped doing that.

Personally, in my PS campaign, I assume the cant really is a "sigilian accent/lingo", much like is the US Southern, New Jersey, and Bronx accents/lingos are considered distinctive.

And, uhm, saying that the MotP is enough to play Planescape is a bit like saying that reading PC Gamer is enough to get a degree in computer science.

It's not enough, but it's a good start, with new 3e rules for running things on the planes, which are really the substrate of the setting.

I do hate the magical powers associated to factions, and I also don't really like the factions-as-PrCs thing. Come on, who is going to climb to 10th level in a PrC which may or may not be suited to your character?

I likewise hated the factions as a prestige class thing. However, WotC didn't put it out (it was a fan article), so it's far from official.

Munchkin playground... oh, please! Quite the opposite in fact. If you try to hack your way through Planescape, you will die before getting to 2nd level.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[hong]

As for myself, no. I do not miss planescape. I didn't like what it did to the planes, first of all... Planes should not (as I see it) be a valid environment for levels 1-XXXXXX adventuring. Planes loose their mystery and "wow" factor in Planescape. They are "just" another place to go in Planescape, a factor I don't like. I always felt that planar adventures should be EPIC... Which they just aren't to me in Planescape.

I also don't like the factions, or the whole "mood" or "style" of planescape.

Sigil would, however, be GREAT for a Babylon 5-style campaign. Assuming you were in the mood for SF, that is.

I should also mention that while the setting itself still doesn't do much for me, PS was the setting for Torment, one of my favourite CRPGs of all time. I'm still in awe at what Chris Avellone and the guys at Black Isle achieved.

 

[Tsyr]

You know what I find funny?

That anytime people don't like planescape, they are always jumped on by its fans about how "They have clearly never played it" (Exception: If they say they have never played it, that's not what I'm talking about), or they just "don't get it", and planescape is so "mature" and is so far "beyond" normal settings...

Is it so hard to grasp that someone just doesn't like the bloody thing?

I've played Planescape quite a bit. One of my DMs was blooming obsessed about it. Wouldn't run anything else for a long time. And I have never really liked the setting. And once the "oo, this is different, kinda cool..." feeling wore off, I started to like it even less. This is not a problem, I am not too stupid to understand the setting, I just do not like it.

To use an analogy, I don't like BMWs. I am not "wrong" to dislike BMWs when most people do, it's not that I "don't understand" BMWs... I just do not like them.

 

[Tsyr]

Sigil would, however, be GREAT for a Babylon 5-style campaign. Assuming you were in the mood for SF, that is.

I should also mention that while the setting itself still doesn't do much for me, PS was the setting for Torment, one of my favourite CRPGs of all time. I'm still in awe at what Chris Avellone and the guys at Black Isle achieved.

Don't much like B5

Torment was good. Would have been twice as good if they hadn't tried to reinvent the wheel with the "new" interface... which you noticed they never used on any further game. Gawds alive I still have nightmares about that interface.

 

[Horacio]

Tsyr, I think you're over reacting a bit.

I love PS. For me is without doubt the best and richest setting ever published. But I can understand some peole (O.K., maybe lots of people) don't like it.

Some of them haven't tried it, and it bothers me they try to say things like 'it's a muchins playground' when even in the basic set they explain it's not a setting for munchins.

Other people don't like it, but have tried it. Like you, for example. And they explain why they don't like it. Coll. It's perfect. It doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Psion]

Because the thread is a question open to anyone and he has as much right to be here as anyone else?

The right? Perhaps?

Any reason to? No.

I don't think the idea of playing Romans with guns sounds like fun either, but you don't see me bashing in threads about FVLMINATA.

I didn't like what it did to the planes, first of all... Planes should not (as I see it) be a valid environment for levels 1-XXXXXX adventuring. Planes loose their mystery and "wow" factor in Planescape. They are "just" another place to go in Planescape, a factor I don't like.

The places themselves make the planes what they are. So, if you go to an exotic place, it despoils it? Removes the novelty?

I don't think so. There is no novelty AT ALL if you never experience it. Claiming that the ability to go there removes the oddity is highly specious.

I always felt that planar adventures should be EPIC... Which they just aren't to me in Planescape.

And so the REAL problem people have with Planescape comes forth. It's not that it IS a munchkin playground. It's that you want it to be a munchkin playground.

MotP is sufficient for my planar needs.

Then please, do feel free not to buy any hypothetical PS d20 material. Anything else is just whining... and rather pointless whining at that.