D&D 5E Does anyone else run 5th Edition from a 4th edition perspective?

[fjw70]

I use fixed hp and have added healing surges to replace HD healing (4 surges are roughly equivalent). Other than that just converting some 4e monsters.

 

[Raith5]

Unfortunately no. I play a 4e campaign by the book (+ multiple erratas!) and a 5e campaign by the book. I like both, but I think my ideal game is lurking somewhere between the two with 4e being way too much (in every possible respect) and 5e being to little in some really key respects.

 

[schnee]

We've stolen a few 4E and Dungeon World mechanics.

Mostly stuff that allows for a more cinematic, character-driven game. Fail forward, minions, stuff like that.

 

[Xaelvaen]

No, @OP, you are not alone. I was never huge on 4E, but it had some innovative and brilliant aspects of it, diamonds in the rough, so to speak, that just called to me - so I use them no matter what game I play. Monsters are the primary source of this - if I want the characters to face a solitary creature, I don't want to just throw some jacked-up CR at them - it takes away the enjoyment of -every- type of character getting to enjoy the game. In example, if you throw a monster 4 or 5 CRs above the APL, they can handle it, but the monster simply always hits (save those ridiculously rare 1s on my DM dice). My groups tend to find it really boring if the monster's turn is boiled down to a few impossible saves or automatic hits.

Thus, 4E has remained my monster-building inspiration to date, such as adding unique powers (even fighting-styles for more 'mundane' creatures). I know 5E has some built-in cooldown mechanics, but it's typically just for a breath weapon or something you'd expect a creature to have - one of my favorite parts of 4E was finding those monster powers the players -didn't- expect them to have, and that's the kind of game my players want - something to keep them on their toes and 'always leave them wanting more.'

I also created a 'Talent' system for 5E, that works like the feats of 4E. They are watered down abilities that players can use to customize their characters on a limited basis. I even brought over specifically some of the Dragonborn racial feats from 4E. Of course, what's good for players, is good for monsters.

All in all, I guess we run a fairly mechanically-driven 5E game when it comes to combat. When the tokens/pewters hit the squares, we're ready for wargame mode. For everything else, we've always just kind of winged it, including now - but then again, that's basically what 5E is - wing it.

 

[jimmytheccomic]

No, @OP, you are not alone. I was never huge on 4E, but it had some innovative and brilliant aspects of it, diamonds in the rough, so to speak, that just called to me - so I use them no matter what game I play. Monsters are the primary source of this - if I want the characters to face a solitary creature, I don't want to just throw some jacked-up CR at them - it takes away the enjoyment of -every- type of character getting to enjoy the game. In example, if you throw a monster 4 or 5 CRs above the APL, they can handle it, but the monster simply always hits (save those ridiculously rare 1s on my DM dice). My groups tend to find it really boring if the monster's turn is boiled down to a few impossible saves or automatic hits.

Can you elaborate more about how you handle solo creatures in 5e?

 

[Xaelvaen]

Some quick things I use from the top of my head:
- For larger creatures, let's take a dragon in example, I'll add a 'swipe' ability to them with a recharge. I won't use one that's tremendously higher level than my party for a big solo encounter, or throw in a ton of NPCs to help out (like SKT). Instead, I'll use one that might typically be a bit lower CR.

Swipe (Ability) This creature's claw attacks affect every target in a frontal arc of its facing.

Basically, I use it to force my party to use tactics to spread out. Normally, there's always someone with sentinel in my groups, and it typically belongs to a Fighter with high strength and con saves. The options are to A) throw a higher CR dragon so there's a larger chance that Wing Buffet lands, or B) use my swipe ability to force the players to split up for more reasons than the breath weapon. Due to the way Cones work, three melee warriors can stand toe to toe with a dragon and avoid the breath fairly easily in large volume. This way, they'll need to move even more around the dragon for positioning. There are other aspects that do this as well, I basically just add one (and an element of threat that isn't just 'auto hit / auto fail').

Another example would be taking a minotaur and turning it into a big bad boss.

Trample As an action, the Minotaur picks a target within double its movement speed. It then moves this distance. Every creature that would be between the minotaur and the target chooses to make a Dexterity Saving Throw to jump out of the way, or a Strength Saving Throw to try and stop him. A successful dex save deals no damage. A successful strength save deals half damage, and if it beats the DC by 5 or more, the charge is stopped.

In essence, I'm basically just making fight gimmicks but attaching them to a creature instead of an environment, which is how a lot of the powers in 4E made me feel as a DM.

 

[Xeviat]

I'm doing the opposite. I'm working on a whole rewrite of 4E's classes to be more 5E-like, but keeping the assumptions of the math and all the DM and Monster stuff from 4th. Balancing around the encounter and not the long rest, comparable class balance, and interesting monster abilities were some of my favorite things about 4E.

When I'm running 5E, I've remade
Monsters using 4E as a guide, but built on the 5E CR calculator. I just don't like how short fights are. If I'm going to spend time building the encounter, I'd like it to last a while and be interesting.


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[Xaelvaen]

I just don't like how short fights are. If I'm going to spend time building the encounter, I'd like it to last a while and be interesting.

I can definitely agree here. A lot of the fights are pretty short, so that's why I've taken to the solo tactics mentioned above, and increasing the APL for determining encounter difficulty. I typically just add an imaginary extra PC to the math for determining how rough to make an encounter. Party of 5 Level 5s? I make it 6 Level 5s on Kobold Fight Club and call it a day. That seems to really do the trick, provided I'm choosing the right kind of monster. Sometimes, though, the CR doesn't match the health of the monster and they still die a bit quick.

Following suit with 4E again to aid in this, I add 'glass cannon' type monsters that I create myself. Using the DM's guide for balance, I'll make a monster with high accuracy and damage, but very low HP for its CR, and toss a few into the mix. They'll die fast, but man that first round of combat will really make the players feel the mistake of not targeting the glass cannons first.

As a disclaimer, my players prefer tough, gritty combat. We don't use resurrection rules and prefer the dark realism of swords and magic, no matter the setting. Please take my 'beefing up' advice with that in mind lol.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Would you mind giving details? I loved the treasure parcel system and the expected wealth per level. Made life far simpler as a dungeon master, and more enjoyable for certain of my players.

Since the game is balanced around no magic items and the DM has to be very discreet with them normally, I have a document kicking around with a big list of items that have all been adjusted to function at the power level of uncommon items. I avoid AC and to-hit static bonuses completely.

As an example, my equivalent of a flametongue weapon, is a sword that, when the command word is spoken ignites in flames- which simply changes it's damage type to fire. I have weapons that give advantage against certain creature types and glow when they enter a certain distance- it's all situational bonuses or expanded utility capabilities. The goal of the system is that if you as a player say "Man I really want a flaming magical sword" I as a DM don't have to think twice about dropping it in the next treasure horde, letting you buy it, or craft it, etc. These are called blessed items, and each one you equip is worth 1 attunement point, where you have an amount equal to your proficiency bonus.

Alongside that, I have a still-theoretical system called godbounds, where everyone gets an artifact style magic item that scales with adventuring tier, unlocking more powers. Juries still out on the design of those, whether or not they have those static bonuses, i need to take a close look at at what +3's actual do to the math of the game at high levels.

 

[Xeviat]

I'd like to run the math on how magic items increase the effective of the PCs. If +2 to hit and AC increases a creatures CR by 1, and CR translates to level on somewhere between a 2-1 basisish (based on me testing some builds of my players), we could say that every meaningful item increases a character's level by 0.5?


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