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Does anyone else think D&D 4th edition should be more like 2nd edition

warlord

First Post
Personally I hate 3rd edition and 3.5 WoTC completely changed all the rules they screwed up monster HD added monster classes(and Savage Species was just crap),gave all the classes the same xp bonus and made it a low tech version of the Star Wars RPG I like that game but I want my Jedi and Dwarven fighters seperated.
 

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I'm not go out of my way to be trollish I'm just saying I liked 2nd edition more and that I think D20 doesn't work for D&D. So I want D&D to start going back in the direction it was going when Gary Gygax controlled it.
 

Number 1: Gygax lost control when 2nd Ed. was created.

Number 2: Gygax's rules were getting more and more crazy before he lost control.

I started back when 1st Ed. came out, and, in my honest opinion, D & D has been improving ever since.
 

No, no I don't.

But if you hate d20 so much, then why are you here? G to dragonsfoot and you'll find more people who agree with you.

For what it's worth, didn't Gygax loose control before 2e?
 


Laman Stahros said:
I started back when 1st Ed. came out, and, in my honest opinion, D & D has been improving ever since.


I agree, although DnD has lost a lot of its rugged edge to be more player friendly (I am usually stuck DMing). Remember when summoning a familiar was a scary proposition? Getting stuck with an imp when you weren't evil was no fun. Nowadays you practically get a catalog to choose from.
 

Gygax was the victim of of greed someone thought he was going in the wrong direction and so they got rid of him and TSR spiraled out of control and became part of WoTC and so thats why D&D is what it is today. And I don't think everything is bad I just don't like some stuff like ditching the martial arts system for OA and making the monk they only one who can fight unarmed.
 


Um, assuming this isn't a troll. . .

No way, no way in Baator.

The old AD&D 1e/2e framework worked for a decade or two ago, but it had shown it's age and obsolesence by the time it was replaced by d20. AD&D clearly showed that it was built from the framework of a wargame, and it had piles of bolted-on, inconsistent rules that made learning D&D utterly daunting to the newbie, and confusing even to experienced players.

d20/3e, in either it's 3.0 or 3.5 version retains all the signature features and flavor of D&D and makes it highly adaptable to any imaginable setting, while getting rid of the dumbest, most contradictory and arbitrary restrictions. Like why are elves so magical and tied to nature, but they can't be as high-level wizards or druids as humans, or why must all Clerics have their combat ethics defined by the medieval catholic church and eschew all edged weapons, why are or any one of countless other "Because Gygax/TSR Said So" arbitrary rules, the contradictory/confusing Saving Throws and THAC0/AC rules of earlier. Not to mention the disasters of 1e/2e's multiclassing/dual-classing rules, 2e psionics, and the horribly bare-bones way of statting monsters.

I can only wonder how incredible Spelljammer, Dark Sun, and Planescape (as 3 of the most innovative 2e settings) would have been if they'd been originally written in d20/3e, and had it's flexibility to work with from the beginning.

If 4e is a return to the "old" 1e/2e I think it'll be the gaming equivalent of New Coke (especially since those retro-style gamers are happily serviced via HackMaster). Frankly, I don't have any real plans to buy 4e when it comes out, I'm happy with my own home-brew blend of 3.0, 3.5, AU, UA & d20M, and if I have to, I can even distribute it via the OGL and keep 3.x alive long after WotC discontinued it.
 

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