Does anyone else think D&D 4th edition should be more like 2nd edition

[MoogleEmpMog]

I don't have a problem with a new $60-$90 US edition every 3-5 years, since that's the standard for games like Warhammer. That assumes that the new editions either:
a) remain fully compatible (3.5 did a bang-up job of this, except for monsters, which although much improved take a fair bit of reworking)
or
b) genuinely improve the game in a meaningful way (3.0 did a wonderful job of this, 3.5 less so)

As for 4e being like 2e...

That would be a sure-fire way to get me to not upgrade, and to hope that the OGL/d20 lines spin further afield.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I absolutely abhor 2nd edition. Now if 4th edition was more like 1st, I'd be a very happy camper. Regardless, I have C&C now, so I probably won't even touch a 4th edition or a 5th for that matter.

 

[warlord]

For one thing I am not totally against D20 it has it uses like the SW RPG but Wizards has ruined D&D I mean why buy the core rules books and the have to buy the new onews that are "improved" 3 months later. Also I hate having to pay 50$ per book I don't have that kind of money I mean I may buy some ocasionaly like Races of Stone & Complete Arcane(Finally a warmage class to convert back to 2e) and the EXP I liked that to more combat oriented powers. So i'm not totally against it 3.5 works great as a supplement to 2e buyt on its own not so much I'd only consider fully converting a ditching my 2e AD&D collection worth thousands if I can't find any 2e gamers to play with.

 

[Karl Green]

Personally I hate 3rd edition and 3.5 WoTC completely changed all the rules they screwed up monster HD added monster classes(and Savage Species was just crap),gave all the classes the same xp bonus and made it a low tech version of the Star Wars RPG I like that game but I want my Jedi and Dwarven fighters seperated.

GOWD the reason I stopped playing D&D was 2nd ed. If you want to cut back on the rules cool BUT if it resembles old d&d I be out of here

 

[warlord]

I moving to dragonsfoot

I'm moving to dragonsfoot because it is more 2e friendly. Let the great Exoudus start "Tell old Morrus, Let my people go!"

 

[Zappo]

Except for the 10% stabilisation roll when a character is bleeding to death.

Even that has a rational design choice behind it (though whether the choice is the best one is debatable). Percentile rolls in 3(.5)E are rolls that cannot be modified, ever. They are logically different from d20 checks. The use of a different die makes sure that there are no mistakes there. In previous editions, the choice of mechanic for any given action was much more arbitrary.

 

[Piratecat]

Seems reasonable. Different boards cater to different interests; best to hang out somewhere that you can discuss what you like with people who also like it!

 

[FireLance]

It appears that warlord has left the thread, but I would just like to point out an error in one of his statements. 3e did not introduce monster classes. In 2e, we had the Complete Book of Humanoids and the Council of Wyrms. Even further back, there was a D&D Gazeteer ("The Orcs of Thar", I believe) that allowed you to play trolls, ogres, gnolls, hobgoblins, goblins, orcs, etc. These were set up similar to the Basic D&D dwarf, elf and halfling which were effectively "monster classes" as well.

 

[Henry]

It appears that warlord has left the thread, but I would just like to point out an error in one of his statements. 3e did not introduce monster classes. In 2e, we had the Complete Book of Humanoids and the Council of Wyrms. Even further back, there was a D&D Gazeteer ("The Orcs of Thar", I believe) that allowed you to play trolls, ogres, gnolls, hobgoblins, goblins, orcs, etc.

I actually brought this up in a Dragonsfoot discussion once. The results were not agreement, to say the least. At best, it was "only an outside option"; at worst, it was a betrayal of Gary's original concepts about PC races, and shouldn't have been carried forward to 3E in the first place. Those discussions, however, died with the Edition Wars forum.

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

I think the D20-system was a stroke of genius. That said, I found it easier to run battles in 2E when not using figurines.

While complicated, the 2.5E combat rules were in many ways the predecessor to 3E:
- It introduced the 3E critical hit rule
- The idea of splitting the actions of the players into no-move, half-move and full-move actions
- Attacks of Opportunity
- 6-second rounds
- Feats

It was made easier and more consistent in 3E, but I still miss some of the rules from 2.5E melee:

- Facing (The idea of flanking a formation of pikemen is lost in 3E, and this is one rule it is hard to make a house rule)
- Weapon speed
- Different weapon armor penetration
- Fatigue
- Strength and dexterity influences standard movement speed