Does Anyone Find the Encumbrance Amounts Unrealistic?

[Klaus]

It's still a linear formula, which I think is the real problem. (Specifically, "7.5 x Strength - 50.") What would work best is an exponential system like 3E had. Unfortunately, it's hard to do that and keep the math simple.

Also, Strength 10 should be 50 pounds, not 40.

It was an attempt to have average Strength not carry too much, while increasing the benefit of high Strength.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I just did some basic math and realised how incredibly messed up the carrying capacity mechanics are.

I can deadlift a maximum of 180lbs (well, technically 80kg including the bar), once, and hold it for about five seconds before having to drop it. By DDN's numbers, that would give me a Strength score of 3.5.

The world record for a deadlift is 500lbs which would give this monster of a human being a measly strength score of 10.

Yeah but the real world doesn't have Conan (for example) in it. What kind of deadlift might he have 1000 lbs, 2000 lbs - more?

I see the rules as for "Heroic Fiction" so that kind of difference doesn't bug me.

 

[Mercurius]

I'm pretty much the definition of average STR, although given my lifting capacities I've noticed that I've scored in the 8-9 range on "What are your Ability Scores?" tests. I've done some backpacking--and carrying of small children--and would say that my movement is slightly hindered by 30 lbs of weight, greatly by 50 lbs, although I can still walk fine - just not quickly or, gods forbid, engage in combat effectively. I could hike with 80 lbs but would be slowed and the experience wouldn't be that enjoyable.

50 lbs for STR 10 sounds like a good baseline. It is easy enough to say that a 0 STR = 0 lbs, so let's say that each STR score below 10 equals 5 lbs, which nicely gets us to 50 lbs at STR 10. Then we can say that every number over 10 adds 10 lbs, so we get the following:

STR 1 = 5 lbs
STR 2 = 10 lbs
STR 3 = 15 lbs
STR 4 = 20 lbs
STR 5 = 25 lbs
STR 6 = 30 lbs
STR 7 = 35 lbs
STR 8 = 40 lbs
STR 9 = 45 lbs
STR 10 = 50 lbs
STR 11 = 60 lbs
STR 12 = 70 lbs
STR 13 = 80 lbs
STR 14 = 90 lbs
STR 15 = 100 lbs
STR 16 = 110 lbs
STR 17 = 120 lbs
STR 18 = 130 lbs
STR 19 = 140 lbs
STR 20 = 150 lbs

That kills multiple birds - it is clean, logical, and finds a balance between realism and game function. The one problem is that at higher scores it starts breaking down; for instance, let's say a 50 ft tall Titan can carry 1,000 lbs without being encumbered - does that mean he'd have a 105 STR? (STR 10 = 50 lbs + 95 STR for 950 lbs). Maybe each ten "tiers" increases an exponent, so that over 20 adds 20 or 25 lbs, over 30 it might be 40-50 lbs, and over 40 it might be 80-100 lbs. This would mean even Titans and such would never need STRs above 50 (although I suppose that a truly colossal creature like the Tarrasque or the Kraken in Clash of the Titans would).

 

[Klaus]

I just did some basic math and realised how incredibly messed up the carrying capacity mechanics are.

I can deadlift a maximum of 180lbs (well, technically 80kg including the bar), once, and hold it for about five seconds before having to drop it. By DDN's numbers, that would give me a Strength score of 3.5.

The world record for a deadlift is 500lbs which would give this monster of a human being a measly strength score of 10.

So let's reverse-engineer that: 500 lbs. sound like something a guy with Str 20 would be able to lift. That's Str x25. The guy could probably drag twice as much, with effort. That's 1000 pounds, or Str x50.

Conversely, what can an average (Str 10) human lift (and not burst a hernia)? I'm hard-pressed to carry my wife, who weighs around 120 lbs, but I can carry my 7-year-old son, who weights about 50 lbs.

 

[vagabundo]

I'd use the strength mod to calculate the weight.

Something like:

40lbs + 40*mod before becoming encumbered.

Up the max carry to x2* and keep the dead lift x5.

Score        Unencumbered  
10-11        40                  
12-13        80                  
14-15        120                  
16-17        160                  
18-19        200                  
20-21        240

*Anything over your max carry and you need to make strength checks or you can't move. That might allow for some herculean effort to carry people out of danger.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

I just did some basic math and realised how incredibly messed up the carrying capacity mechanics are.

I can deadlift a maximum of 180lbs (well, technically 80kg including the bar), once, and hold it for about five seconds before having to drop it. By DDN's numbers, that would give me a Strength score of 3.5.

The world record for a deadlift is 500lbs which would give this monster of a human being a measly strength score of 10.

According to http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/files/PLWR-M-03-19-12.pdf deadlift world records (by weight class/gender) range between 573 lbs and 1,015 lb. Sounds like they got it about right.

20 strength (max possible in D&D for adventuring human) = 1,000 lb dead lift.

I also think the strength * 10 lb. for unencumbered carrying capacity is about right. This is the amount of weight you'd carry around in a backpack and other gear (wearing armor, etc.). "Realistically" should probably adjust for size, but why get that fiddly? A strength 10 person weighing 105 lbs and 5' 4" can't carry as much as a strength 10 person weighing 195 lbs @ 6' 0". But I doubt the difference is so big as to make a huge deal out of it worth the effort.

 

[Dausuul]

It was an attempt to have average Strength not carry too much, while increasing the benefit of high Strength.

Yeah, I thought about it some more and realized it worked better than I'd thought. It runs into issues with super-high Strength scores, but for PCs it's solid.

Regarding monster deadlifts, let's keep in mind that that's an Olympic weightlifter, whose training is focused solely on pumping the maximum possible amount of iron. PCs with 20 Strength are combination decathletes and martial arts masters; they can carry a lot, yes, but they also train to swim and climb and jump and fight and bust down doors.

I'd suggest having a feat or something to represent "can carry a lot," then calibrate the numbers so that when you put the feat together with Strength 20, you get Olympic weightlifter stats.

 

[B.T.]

Bring back light, medium, and heavy loads.

 

[Arlough]

Maybe this would be a great opportunity to have D&D use an encumbrance score for items instead of weights?

Encumbrance scores take into account weight and difficulty in carrying based on size, awkwardness, etc. That way you could keep the simplicity of Str x 10 but also add in a great new mechanic for carrying items.

I'd xp you, but I don't know how to do so from my phone.

My group has been using Encumbrance Units since 3e was released. Two of us have quite a bit of knowledge of medieval weaponry, and the weight of things like swords and bows irked us. Then we decided that looking at the number as an abstract of how difficult the item was to deal with not only made more sense, but was more useful in over 95% of the situations the characters found themselves in.
I like rules that cover most situations, and then making exceptions for the remaining situations, not the reverse.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

Edit: Found a computer but it looks like I still need to spread XP before I can give you any. Anyone willing to XP Kzach's post for me?

 

[Klaus]

Yeah, I thought about it some more and realized it worked better than I'd thought. It runs into issues with super-high Strength scores, but for PCs it's solid.

Regarding monster deadlifts, let's keep in mind that that's an Olympic weightlifter, whose training is focused solely on pumping the maximum possible amount of iron. PCs with 20 Strength are combination decathletes and martial arts masters; they can carry a lot, yes, but they also train to swim and climb and jump and fight and bust down doors.

I'd suggest having a feat or something to represent "can carry a lot," then calibrate the numbers so that when you put the feat together with Strength 20, you get Olympic weightlifter stats.

The dwarf fighter's Soldier theme gives it the Endurance benefit, which doubles (among other things) the carrying capacity.

The US Marine Corps individual equipment ranges between 95 and 135 pounds, with some missions requiring each soldier to carry up to 150 pounds and not be noticeably slowed down.

Maybe how much a character can carry before being encumbered shouldn't be a function of Strength alone. Maybe Constitution should factor in as well (add Con modifier to Str score?).