Does Cleave mark two enemies?

[Nail]

I’m not sure that Cleave attacks (and therefore marks) two targets.

The fighter’s Combat Challenge says “Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target.” The key here is the word “attack”.

The power Cleave says what happens to an adjacent enemy (“ an enemy adjacent to you takes damage equal to your Strength modifier”), but the target of the power is “one creature”. So you are attacking one creature, and an adjacent creature takes damage....I’m not sure that’s an attack, any more than the aura damage from a Kruthic is an attack.

So, the question is: “Does Cleave attack two creatures, or just one?” It looks to me like the answer is: Just One.

 

[Oompa]

You are correct..

If i would throw an water balloon in your face, i attack you, but the person standing next to you might be splattered, but i didnt attack that person..

 

[DrSpunj]

The person getting splattered with a water balloon might disagree they weren't attacked, but for 4e I hope the rules here are pretty clear.

For me it goes back to Hypersmurf's frequently enumerated uses of the word attack in 4e which make lots of situations ambiguous. I don't think this is one of them given the wording for the Fighter's marking ability and the Target line in Cleave designating only one creature.

Thanks for the thread, Nail!

 

[DrSpunj]

Your comment about the Kruthik's Aura damage raises another question for me about Battlerager Vigor and Cleave here, though:

If a BRV fighter took the extra Cleave damage with an attack from a Mob with a Cleave-like attack that targeted the Fighter's ally, would the BRV fighter get his temporary hit points from that attack?

He was hit with a Melee Power effect but again, we just determined he wasn't targeted with the attack. Does that matter to the BRV build?

Curious minds want to know!

 

[Fede]

I believe that in cases like this its not receiving damage that counts as being attacked, but someone rolling a d20 against one of your defenses

 

[Black Knight Irios]

The answer is given in the official 4E FAQ (answer #2):

2. Suppose a Fighter uses his Cleave Attack, dealing damage to an enemy adjacent to the attack target. Can he mark that adjacent enemy as well?

No. Even if the adjacent enemy suffers damage, it was not the target of the attack, and cannot be marked.​

I think there are currently some wordings that can confuse you at times:

#1: when you are attacked...
#2: when you take damage...
#3: when you are hit...
#4: when you are hit and take damage...
and maybe more.

#1 d20 roll required, and you are a target
#2 you take damage, regardless of source
#3 d20 roll required, and you are a target
#4 as #3 + you take damage
Meet those conditions and you get the effect after "...".

But honestly I can not guarantee that those are rules that apply 100% of the time, it is just from my play experiences and how I would rule in most circumstances.

 

[Nail]

For the record:

That sucks.

 

[brehobit]

For the record:

That sucks.

Cleave is really quite nice. Minons often have better defenses than the non-minions. It's a really nice way to "target" a minion. Plus, the extra damage does add up pretty quickly.

I love fighter at-wills.

Mark