D&D 5E Why Is The Assassin Rpgue?

[doctorbadwolf]

It's much like the Champion damage bonus feature. Critting 1 out of every 19 non-crit attacks (2 out of 19 non-crit attacks at high levels) is just...not very good or interesting. Yes, it adds damage in the long run. But it takes so long for that damage to actually add up...and on average you're waiting ~18 attacks aka ~9 rounds to see one of those extra crits (~8.5 attacks at high level, so 2-3 rounds on average, depending on whether you make three or four attacks), sometimes many more, and very rarely they'll be rapid-fire.

I just figured out a cool fix for that and I’m sad it’ll never see print (unless I put it in my D&D project but def not official)

The Champion should get a count down. Every time they hit without crit, the crit range threshold goes down one pip, starting at 19, and then 18 at level 7, etc.

So at high level you crit on a 16, and if you hit but don’t crit it becomes 15, until you crit and it resets.

Man. You could even let them bump up 2+ number in order to do a cool thing.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I just figured out a cool fix for that and I’m sad it’ll never see print (unless I put it in my D&D project but def not official)

The Champion should get a count down. Every time they hit without crit, the crit range threshold goes down one pip, starting at 19, and then 18 at level 7, etc.

So at high level you crit on a 16, and if you hit but don’t crit it becomes 15, until you crit and it resets.

Man. You could even let them bump up 2+ number in order to do a cool thing.

Sounds like a useful variant of the 13th Age Escalation Die, just counting down from 19 instead of up from 0.

I'd say the only potential issue is that most combats are over in about three rounds. But perhaps you could find simple, straightforward ways to improve it. E.g. maybe using stuff like Action Surge, Second Wind, or Indomitable advances it faster.

If you ever draft a homebrew version, it should definitely be called something like "Inevitability." Because the Champion may not be the strongest to start with...but time is on the champ's side. Her enemies must play to win; she must simply play not to lose.

 

[Horwath]

It's much like the Champion damage bonus feature. Critting 1 out of every 19 non-crit attacks (2 out of 19 non-crit attacks at high levels) is just...not very good or interesting. Yes, it adds damage in the long run. But it takes so long for that damage to actually add up...and on average you're waiting ~18 attacks aka ~9 rounds to see one of those extra crits (~8.5 attacks at high level, so 2-3 rounds on average, depending on whether you make three or four attacks), sometimes many more, and very rarely they'll be rapid-fire.

When compared to the obvious, up-front, it's-right-there-and-obviously-helping pile of bonus dice (4d8 rising to 6d12), it's just...disappointing. Yes, it happens, but it doesn't happen often enough to deliver on the premise.

(Frankly, IMO, the Champion should just deal +1 damage for each attack roll they make...whether or not it hits. Even their misses are near-misses. Simple, easy to track, always useful, naturally grows in power with the character, the player never needs to track anything more special than "how many attack rolls did I make." Make it +2 at high level. Boom: instant simple damage bonus that still rewards long-term slugging it out, no special effort required. With some back-of-the-envelope calculations, it seems to work out fine--it's a bit weaker early on, but due to scaling innately with Extra Attack, it would end up being slightly more expected performance in a vacuum, but incapable of optimization or efficiency improvement, while Superiority Dice permit both.)

It's a shame that they backtracked on unified subclass progression because of "muh compatibitah!".

Champion could have been a simple subclass for almost all classes,
With little buff, like starting feature also giving +1 HP per class level, it would be "the simple" subclass for all martials(and those who feel that way).

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It's a shame that they backtracked on unified subclass progression because of "muh compatibitah!".

Champion could have been a simple subclass for almost all classes,
With little buff, like starting feature also giving +1 HP per class level, it would be "the simple" subclass for all martials(and those who feel that way).

Perhaps. I personally am less keen on "universal" subclasses than most. I prefer each class to be mechanically distinct. Same as why I oppose making a common pool of powers for 4e classes. That way actual bland samey classes lies.

 

[Horwath]

Perhaps. I personally am less keen on "universal" subclasses than most. I prefer each class to be mechanically distinct. Same as why I oppose making a common pool of powers for 4e classes. That way actual bland samey classes lies.

Maybe,

to me most classes are same with guidelines for noobs on what feats and spells to take.

bard, cleric, druid, wizard, sorcerer, just a mage with predetermined feats, instead of giving players the choice.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sounds like a useful variant of the 13th Age Escalation Die, just counting down from 19 instead of up from 0.

I have been thinking about using dice in kinda similar ways with both my Alchemist and my Monk rename-rewrite I keep struggling to name.

Alchemist would have flex in the power of devices by having a “heat” die representing the device getting hotter and closer to mishap.

Not-Monk would build up to bigger moves by building up a momentum die. This one I’m less sure of.

I'd say the only potential issue is that most combats are over in about three rounds. But perhaps you could find simple, straightforward ways to improve it. E.g. maybe using stuff like Action Surge, Second Wind, or Indomitable advances it faster.

I think that if it advances with every attack it should work really well, but yeah action AS, SW, also advancing it by 1 when you use them (on top of action surge extra attacks), would help.

If you ever draft a homebrew version, it should definitely be called something like "Inevitability." Because the Champion may not be the strongest to start with...but time is on the champ's side. Her enemies must play to win; she must simply play not to lose.

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[Pauln6]

I think giving the assassin extra ways to get the drop on people / assassinate damage at higher levels would be more fun. The poison disconnect in 5e hurts the concept a bit. Maybe allowing them to pick the poison option of cunning strike without losing sneak dice?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think giving the assassin extra ways to get the drop on people / assassinate damage at higher levels would be more fun. The poison disconnect in 5e hurts the concept a bit. Maybe allowing them to pick the poison option of cunning strike without losing sneak dice?

Yeah I think that each subclass could have a level 3 feature that is also in cunning strike, but it’s at-will for that subclass and they get it sooner than the base class.

 

[Impetus12]

What if Assassinate was changed to "weak spots" (couldn't think of a better name). The Rogue gets a number of points equal to half their level, they recover after a long rest. You spend those points to make your next Sneak attack an auto critical on a successful hit.
This way, is less dependent on suprise combat and let's you use them more freely while limiting ho often you can use it at low levels. It might be too strong at really high level though, I guess.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Perhaps. I personally am less keen on "universal" subclasses than most. I prefer each class to be mechanically distinct. Same as why I oppose making a common pool of powers for 4e classes. That way actual bland samey classes lies.

A common pool for powers would have been a blessing in 4e.

Instead we got nearly the same ability printed 8 times, with very fiddly differenences that don't really matter and were just hard to remember.
And on top of that we got the same power with 2 more damage dice and sometimes even a downgrade of the rider effect 7 levels later.

Thank god essentials was way more clever in some parts.