D&D General Does D&D (and RPGs in general) Need Edition Resets?

[mamba]

It's a problem because it seems every game design conversation is dominated (not includes, is dominated) by questions of popularity and profit, such that it is clearly considered by this community to be the most important factor in game design.

maybe not the most important one, but clearly a very important one.

Let’s start with the obvious, no one wants to design something unpopular intentionally. If they do, they either failed at their design or focused on something that is more important to them.

Since we will never get consensus on what is objectively a good game design, you are then either going in circles about things that are just personal preference, or you have to look beyond that for something more objective - and I am not aware of anything that does this better than sales.

Does that mean 5e is therefore the best game for everyone, no, and that goes both ways. I would still rather play a 5e-like game with 10% market share than some PbtA game with 50% market share

 

[mamba]

So popularity and profit are the only factors that matter to this discussion, and the OP simply "forgot" to reference them in any way?

which objective factors would you suggest in order to answer the OP’s question?

 

[Micah Sweet]

which objective factors would you suggest in order to answer the OP’s question?

I don't think there is an objective answer. It's all playstyles and preference, and the closest thing to objective you get is logic-ing out what such a game might look like, and how you might design the game incrementally over the decades, how it might evolve.

And if you must talk about popularity and profit, why must this theoretical game be as popular as WotC 5e to be worth discussing? The OP just asked if it could be done, not if said game would make as much money for WotC and be played by as many people as the game they did make. Lesser amounts of both things would still make a financially viable game, because of course fiscal solvency is needed for a game to be published at all. But it doesn't have to do WotC 5e's numbers to be successful.

 

[mamba]

The OP just asked if it could be done

no, they asked if it would be a better approach.

As I said before, ‘can be done’ has a trivial answer, yes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

no, they asked if it would be a better approach.

As I said before, ‘can be done’ has a trivial answer, yes.

Again, better for what? Better for WotC's bottom line? Better for player retention? Better for fans of older editions? Better for supporting a particular playstyle?

 

[mamba]

Again, better for what? Better for WotC's bottom line? Better for player retention? Better for fans of older editions? Better for supporting a particular playstyle?

I took it as better for the game, however you define that.

We are starting to go in circles, give me an objective metric for ‘better’, then we talk. Until then I use sales as the closest approximation that I have access to

 

[Micah Sweet]

we are starting to go in circles, give me an objective metric for ‘better’, then we talk. Until then I use sales as the closest approximation that I have access to

Do what you gotta do. I don't think maximum profits is the most important factor in game design, and I never will.

 

[mamba]

Do what you gotta do. I don't think maximum profits is the most important factor in game design, and I never will.

you can do that, but unless you find a better objective metric, we will have to fall back on this one, whether your personal taste aligns with it or not

The question was not which approach is better for Micah, it was simply which one is better, and sales reflect the ‘better overall’ more accurately than your personal opinion, or mine

 

[Micah Sweet]

you can do that, but unless you find a better objective metric, we will have to fall back on this one, whether your personal taste aligns with it or not

The question was not which approach is better for Micah, it was simply which one is better, and sales reflect the ‘better overall’ more accurately than your personal opinion, or mine

Of course, by your definition, no one should make any gaming product other than 5e, and that would be a sad state for the community.

 

[Staffan]

Do what you gotta do. I don't think maximum profits is the most important factor in game design, and I never will.

Maximum profit is not the most important factor, but some level of financial health is necessary unless we're talking about one-and-done games.

For one thing, I prefer my game designers to be professional. I don't want them to be making games* as a hobby. I want them to do it as a full-time job – ideally as employees with a steady paycheck, but if not at least as full-time freelancers. Professionals generally make better stuff, because they get a lot of practice. And if they have real employment, that offers a sense of stability that lets them focus on their job instead of wondering if they can line up a new gig once this one is done. Professional game designers also means you'll be able to get a steady output of material, rather than having part-time game designers getting really busy with their day jobs or getting sick or stuff like that. I don't want to wait two years after the core book and the first adventure is released for the next adventure to be published.

And to have that sort of organization, you need to be able to pay those designers, as well as the overhead associated with having actual staff. And in order to do that, you need to sell stuff.

* I include the whole gamut of product here: core rules, supplemental rules, setting sourcebooks, adventures, whatever.