Does D&D even have a component of "midieval" anymore?

[Son_of_Thunder]

Nope, there's nothing of medieval in 3.5 anymore. My opinion and all of course.

 

[pawsplay]

Actually, if you look at the assumptions in the books, wages and a money economy are assumed for pretty much everybody. Your campaign may operate differently, but the published campaign settings and the way the books handle this sort of thing as a default operate using the very modern assumptions of

Abstractly. I believe the core rulebooks mention that actual coin is rare except for the economic elite.

You must be joking. A peasant farmer can, by dint of his strength in arms work his way up to becoming a noble, or a king? Give an actual example of a commoner ascending to the throne during the era. Most examples of someone fighting their way to the top involve people who started pretty far up the ladder to begin with - usually they were related to the rulers to begin with.

How many PCs are "peasant farmers," and why do they have to become kings?

William Wallace was minor gentry (little more than a free farmer with a pedigree) and he became a major military leader.

Joan of Arc was, in fact, a farmer's daughter who led the armies of France to victory.

Most of these are little more than trivial refinements on things that had already existed, or involved simply rediscovering something that existed before (like the crossbow, originally developed in the ancient world). And none of these were regarded as a positive good in and of themselves (witness things like the attempted banning of the crossbow, because it threatened to upset the established social order).

Bah! The steel that made plate armor eventually built railroads. There has been nothing like the metallurgical advances of the Middle Ages until the late 20th century. Alloys, folding, different tempering, the discovery of carbon, silicon, and titanium impurities.

Contrast this to later periods in which technological progress was not only regarded as useful, but lauded and rewarded as a good thing in and of its own sake.

I question your view of history.

Television? The word is half Greek, half Latin. No good can come of it.
C. P. Scott


The idea that the Renaissance differs markedly and distinctly from the so-called Dark Ages is pretty much a myth. There is no date one ends and the other begins, nor any crucial demarcation in belief or culture. Nor is the Renaissance a time of country farmers praising philosophical advancements or cheering on discoveries in the field of astronomy.

 

[Mallus]

Medieval is to D&D what the dough is to pizza.

Nice... but I think it's actually more like: "Medieval is to D&D as pineapple is to pizza".

You know, surprisingly good when used with liberal amounts of ham, but only enjoyed by a small percentage of consumers overall.

 

[wingsandsword]

Some AD&D 2e books (The Arms & Equipment Guide and The Castle Guide) were very much medievalist books written to fit into the AD&D framework. The "Historic Reference" (a.k.a. "Green Book") series of 2e supplements were specifically made for refitting D&D into being a historic recreation.

However, as others have pointed out, the typical D&D player (or DM) aren't historians and aren't looking for historical accuracy, they want something that is fun and evokes what they think of when they think "medieval", which isn't very accurate. The average D&D group wants "A Knight's Tale" not "Canterbury Tales".

I received my B.A. in History, and when I was finishing up my degree I actually ran a fairly historically accurate 2e game set during the Third Crusade (using a lot I learned while doing some research for a few 500 level classes on medieval Europe), and made a lot of changes (very low magic, historically accurate Church doctrine, names, terms, societal structures, ect). My friends, all veteran D&D players, hated it. It was harder to think authentically in medieval terms and morals, use period terms, and interact with period cultures than it was for them to wrap their mind around supposedly alien settings like Spelljammer or Dark Sun.

The default setting presumptions of D&D 3.x are about as authentically medieval as The Flintstones is to the neolithic period, but it works as long as you aren't wanting medieval reenactment and are wanting a fantasy world that has medieval and renaissance themes.

 

[Jupp]

The look&feel of OD&D and the very early 1st ed stuff certainly was quite medieval (let's say Arthurian medieval fantasy with heavy pulp literature influences). But I think this got lost pretty fast and the whole style switched over to the early renaissance. Chainmail was purely medieval IMO but then they were rules for historical wargames

Now in 3E we have this horrible spikey cut-yourself-with-your-own-armor style. Heaven knows who did come up with that kind of style. Perhaps the artists and designers should have a closer look at the special scenes of the LotR movies about how they did realistic, fully usable but still "fantastic" looking armor and weapons. I am not that much of a fan of the movies but at least they did the arms&equipment part right. Or they should organize some extended educational travelling throughout Europe to learn a bit about nice looking armor and weapons

 

[pawsplay]

I guess my feeling is that if you're going to have horses, peasants, swords, knights, mail and plate, longbows, and the like, then you have to have something to back it up. Otherwise you end up with He-Man, or worse, Dungeons & Flintstones.

 

[Sejs]

Honestly, what the hell do I care if the game I'm playing is genuinely 'medival' or not?

I play the game to have fun, not to stroke off over how authentic to the period I'm being.

 

[ThirdWizard]

D&D is to medieval as the movie Hackers is to programming.

 

[el-remmen]

Funny, I just said to a friend yesterday on this topic that as the years have gone by I have been less and less concerned about emulating anything "medieval", but rather use the medieval (and other time-periods/cultural areas) as inspirations when world-building - but it cannot be "truly" medieval, because the world' history is completely different.

 

[Mallus]

Otherwise you end up with He-Man, or worse, Dungeons & Flintstones Dragons.

Fixed that for you.