Does damage from a touch attack ignore Damage Reduction

[Nifft]

Whereas I would say it is lethal damage which is what it is.

Uh... right. It is indeed lethal.

Now, is it piercing, slashing or bludgeoning? None of the above.
Is it silver, cold iron, or adamantine? None of the above.

It penetrates DR as a touch attack, not as any of the above.

Unlike a magic sword wielded by a guy who's just cast wraithstrike, which remains magical slashing and steel.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unlike a magic sword wielded by a guy who's just cast wraithstrike, which remains magical slashing and steel.

Yes, but we have a rule describing how touch attacks are affected by DR, and another rule that says to resolve your attack with a longsword as a touch attack.

The second rule makes the first rule apply to your longsword - it's resolved as a magical slashing and steel touch attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

Yes, but we have a rule describing how touch attacks are affected by DR, and another rule that says to resolve your attack with a longsword as a touch attack.

The second rule makes the first rule apply to your longsword - it's resolved as a magical slashing and steel touch attack.

You're confusing an attack roll and an attack type.

Touch attacks are special things. Very few critters have them. Wraiths and Ropers both have an attack of type "touch".

Other critters have natural attacks with specific damage types.

If "touch" is not a type of natural attack (with special rules for how it interacts with DR), could you tell me what type of damage wraiths deal when they attack? Is it slashing, piercing or bludgeoning?

There are many things that allow you to resolve an attack roll as though you were making a touch attack. But that does not mean you get all the damage goodies.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are many things that allow you to resolve an attack roll as though you were making a touch attack. But that does not mean you get all the damage goodies.

Wraithstrike, though, doesn't affect just your attack roll; it changes the way the attack is resolved.

Damage is part of the resolution of an attack; your Wraithstrike attack, not just the attack roll, is resolved as if it were a touch attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

Wraithstrike, though, doesn't affect just your attack roll; it changes the way the attack is resolved.

Damage is part of the resolution of an attack; your Wraithstrike attack, not just the attack roll, is resolved as if it were a touch attack.

Where is this definition of resolved coming from?

The places where I see that word being used, all effects that differ from normal resolution are clearly spelled out.

My reading still has "attack" in this context meaning attack roll, not attack roll and damage roll.

Please, though, tell me what the damage type of a wraith's natural attack is: slashing, bludgeoning or piercing?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Nifft]

Hyp,

Here's a quote from a feat in the SRD. This is the entire benefit of the feat in question.

You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a -2 penalty. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.

By your reading, since the word "roll" never follows the word "attack", the -2 penalty described applies to the damage roll as well as the attack roll. Am I correct?

If not, how do you justify reading "attack" as attack roll in one case and as more than attack roll in the other case?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

The places where I see that word being used, all effects that differ from normal resolution are clearly spelled out.

They are. Treat the melee attacks as melee touch attacks.

My reading still has "attack" in this context meaning attack roll, not attack roll and damage roll.

Attack roll and damage roll are both found under the heading of 'Attack' on p139. Attack roll and damage roll are both part of an attack.

Please, though, tell me what the damage type of a wraith's natural attack is: slashing, bludgeoning or piercing?

Looks either untyped or not defined to me. MMp312 states that natural weapons have types, but it only describes what those types are for the 'most common' - bite, claw, talon, gore, slap, slam, sting, and tentacle. It doesn't tell us whether the natural weapon 'incorporeal touch' has a type, or if so what it is.

What's the damage type of a glabrezu's pincers? A kyton's chain? A horned devil's tail? A kraken's arm? An avoral guardinal's wing? They're natural weapons, but they aren't bite, claw, talon, gore, slap, slam, sting, or tentacle.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

By your reading, since the word "roll" never follows the word "attack", the -2 penalty described applies to the damage roll as well as the attack roll. Am I correct?

A "penalty to attacks" and a "bonus to attacks" can be shown by usage to have the meaning of "penalty to attack rolls" and "bonus to attack rolls".

But since a touch attack is a type of attack, not just a type of attack roll, "resolve your attack as a touch attack" refers to the attack as an entity, not just an element of that entity.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

A "penalty to attacks" and a "bonus to attacks" can be shown by usage to have the meaning of "penalty to attack rolls" and "bonus to attack rolls".

Good, at least we have a basis for agreement.
I'm curious what "can be shown by usage" means.

But since a touch attack is a type of attack, not just a type of attack roll, "resolve your attack as a touch attack" refers to the attack as an entity, not just an element of that entity.

My whole point is that "touch" is an attack form and "touch attack" is an attack type. So I'm very much not willing to grant you this point, especially since "resolve" doesn't seem to have any kind of special technical meaning.

I find it far more plausible that the natural attack named "touch" (e.g. what a wraith does) has special rules about how it interacts with DR.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

I find it far more plausible that the natural attack named "touch" (e.g. what a wraith does) has special rules about how it interacts with DR.

Of course, the wraith doesn't have a natural attack named 'touch'; it has a natural attack named 'incorporeal touch', which doesn't behave like a touch attack in some ways - for instance, it doesn't ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects...

-Hyp.