D&D 5E Does Dispel Magic work on Banishment?

[Oofta]

How do you know the third paragraph doesn't simply list exceptions to the rules in the second? The description is actually somewhat ambiguous; they should have explicitly specified that the creature isn't incapacitated.

It seems pretty clear to me, if native incapacitated. If not native sent to home plane - no mention of incapacitated.

That leads to another related question.

If the target is native to a different plane it returns to it's home plane. If the caster ceases to concentrate on the spell before the minute is up the target returns. So far so good.

But there doesn't seem to be anything stopping the target from plane shifting back to where they were. They just don't automatically return if the concentration is maintained for a minute.

So you banish a demon back to their native plane. They aren't incapacitated, they may or may not return in a minute. So instead of waiting they just plane shift back into the fight.

I see nothing in the text that says they cannot return, although I believe in previous editions it was something like a year before they could come back. Am I just missing it?

 

[thethain]

How do you know the third paragraph doesn't simply list exceptions to the rules in the second? The description is actually somewhat ambiguous; they should have explicitly specified that the creature isn't incapacitated.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/banishment

Paragraph 2 starts with "If the target is native to this plane"

If the target is native to the plane of existence you're on, you banish the target to a harmless demiplane. While there, the target is incapacitated. The target remains there until the spell ends, at which point the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied.

Paragraph 3 starts with "If the target is native to a different plane"

If the target is native to a different plane of existence than the one you're on, the target is banished with a faint popping noise, returning to its home plane. If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn't return.

It seems pretty clear it is meant as IF this then this, If that then that. Interestingly it mentions nothing if the target doesn't have a native plane of existence..

 

[jaelis]

My read would be that if banished to your home plane, you are not incapacitated. But I wouldn't claim the rules are entirely clear.

Interestingly it mentions nothing if the target doesn't have a native plane of existence..

I think all creatures have a home plane somehow or another

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

It seems pretty clear to me, if native incapacitated. If not native sent to home plane - no mention of incapacitated.

That leads to another related question.

If the target is native to a different plane it returns to it's home plane. If the caster ceases to concentrate on the spell before the minute is up the target returns. So far so good.

But there doesn't seem to be anything stopping the target from plane shifting back to where they were. They just don't automatically return if the concentration is maintained for a minute.

So you banish a demon back to their native plane. They aren't incapacitated, they may or may not return in a minute. So instead of waiting they just plane shift back into the fight.

I see nothing in the text that says they cannot return, although I believe in previous editions it was something like a year before they could come back. Am I just missing it?

Very few outsiders are capable of casting Plane Shift, not even top rank fiends like Balors and Pit Fiends. There are some that can, such as Rakshasas, so banishing them isn't a great tactic.

Even so, Plane Shift doesn't let you teleport to a specific location on a plane except for an existing Teleportation Circle that the caster knows. Otherwise you just end up in a general area and have to make your way back to the fight on foot, and with how fast 5E combat is you probably won't get there before the fight is over.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Very few outsiders are capable of casting Plane Shift, not even top rank fiends like Balors and Pit Fiends. There are some that can, such as Rakshasas, so banishing them isn't a great tactic.

Even so, Plane Shift doesn't let you teleport to a specific location on a plane except for an existing Teleportation Circle that the caster knows. Otherwise you just end up in a general area and have to make your way back to the fight on foot, and with how fast 5E combat is you probably won't get there before the fight is over.

That is true. I think banishment falls under "put off the fight until another day." Assuming the fiend is annoyed with the party, it has to plot vengeance, either figuring out how to get back to where the PC's are (eventually) or powering up some minion...I mean warlock on the plane where the PC's are to get vengeance for it. Of course, an evil DM could decide that the fiend now has a pretty good idea of who the PC's are and what they can do (and thus the fiend can set up something where the fight is in its [or its pawn's] favor). Nothing like having the fiend you banished 3 levels ago show up (with friends) while you are in a desperate fight with a dragon.....

 

[Oofta]

Very few outsiders are capable of casting Plane Shift, not even top rank fiends like Balors and Pit Fiends. There are some that can, such as Rakshasas, so banishing them isn't a great tactic.

Even so, Plane Shift doesn't let you teleport to a specific location on a plane except for an existing Teleportation Circle that the caster knows. Otherwise you just end up in a general area and have to make your way back to the fight on foot, and with how fast 5E combat is you probably won't get there before the fight is over.

True. I just happened to be looking at one that has plane shift as an option for an upcoming game. But you're right about the location - I didn't have my PHB handy. I'd still be tempted to let plane shift put them where they wanted to based on a percentile die roll. That I have one of my players make.

On the other hand, that does make me wonder where exactly the fiend gets banished to? I mean "back to their home plane" is quite vague.

Because if it's back to it's home, I could see contingencies being set up for this scenario. If the party is known to banish fiends and the fiend knows where they will be banished to and they have a decent idea of when the fight is going to happen I could see them having a spellcaster at the ready to dispel the banishment a round or two after they are banished.

An awful lot of contingencies, and nothing I would do more than once or twice in an entire campaign, but some fiends (devils in particular) are known for scheming.

 

[Shiroiken]

This is an interesting point, could there be a counterspell usage or variant that just knocks out concentration of an ongoing spell? It would make sense that some mage had came up with this.

I would think an additional usage of Dispel Magic would be more appropriate than Counterspell. As someone else pointed out, damage is a fairly good "dispel" against concentration, but not very reliable against mid to high level Sorcerers (I have a 17th level Sorceress in my game that has +10 or +11 on her Con save, so she almost never fails). Next campaign I may add this to Dispel Magic: "Alternately, you can target a spellcaster to end a Concentration spell they have cast."

 

[jgsugden]

You can dispel it, RAW, if you can target the creature that has been banished. Once the creature is on the other plane, it is being held there by the spell. If the magic is disputed by anti-magic or is dispelled, there is nothing holding them anymore. A contingency spell with a 4th level dispel magic would be a good defense.

 

[thethain]

BTW guys, Tasha's Hideous Laughter is the spell to force creatures to lose concentration. Level 1, only restriction is Int 3+. Much lower spell level cast than dispel or counterspell.

 

[Tormyr]

I let dispel magic work on the caster for any concentration spell because there is some sort of magical effort being made on the caster's part. Dispelling the magic on the caster severs the link, essentially breaking concentration.