Does Divine Might require an action to use?
- Thread starter Doc Century
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Gah. Lion's Charge spell from Savage Species, is what I meant to say.
-Hyp.
-Hyp.
green slime
First Post
We allow Quicken Turning to affect even the other Divine feats, so now the Paladin powers up Divine Might each and every battle.
reapersaurus
Explorer
it's gotten really damn hard to get a CHA bonus very high nowadays.
There's umpteen things to up STR (supposedly the best stat in the game), but there's almost nothing for CHA.
Consider a 10th level PC.
IF he started with an 18 CHA (big IF), and put both level-ups into CHA, and sunk most of his wealth into a +6 item, he has a 26 CHA (+8).
That is only 6 more damage than Weapon Specialization, and he had to waste a round activating it, so the damage output comparison is not as easy as many people believe.
If the fighter got off a full-round attack instead of the paladin activating Divine Might (which is only good for 7 rounds of actual use, BTW, since the ticker starts the round he turns it on, but he can't use it that round), than the fight has to last quite a long time for the Paladin with his +8 per attack to equal the Fighter's full-round damage output for one round.
Since I used the best-case Paladin, I think I can assume a good build for the 10th level fighter, and say he'll do 50 damage in a round. Oh, but of course, the fighter WILL have higher STR, since he didn't sink all his money and levelups and statpoints into CHA, so he'll be more likely to hit.
The paladin would have to hit with 7 attacks before he even equals the fighter's damage that the Paladin gave up when having to activate Divine Might. Oh yeah, Divine Might represents HALF of a non-human Paladin's feat resources just to get this questionable of comparison, not to mention ~75% of his wealth.
There's umpteen things to up STR (supposedly the best stat in the game), but there's almost nothing for CHA.
Consider a 10th level PC.
IF he started with an 18 CHA (big IF), and put both level-ups into CHA, and sunk most of his wealth into a +6 item, he has a 26 CHA (+8).
That is only 6 more damage than Weapon Specialization, and he had to waste a round activating it, so the damage output comparison is not as easy as many people believe.
If the fighter got off a full-round attack instead of the paladin activating Divine Might (which is only good for 7 rounds of actual use, BTW, since the ticker starts the round he turns it on, but he can't use it that round), than the fight has to last quite a long time for the Paladin with his +8 per attack to equal the Fighter's full-round damage output for one round.
Since I used the best-case Paladin, I think I can assume a good build for the 10th level fighter, and say he'll do 50 damage in a round. Oh, but of course, the fighter WILL have higher STR, since he didn't sink all his money and levelups and statpoints into CHA, so he'll be more likely to hit.
The paladin would have to hit with 7 attacks before he even equals the fighter's damage that the Paladin gave up when having to activate Divine Might. Oh yeah, Divine Might represents HALF of a non-human Paladin's feat resources just to get this questionable of comparison, not to mention ~75% of his wealth.
Doc Century
First Post
Darklone said:
Gah! You're right!! Darn, with having to spend an action, and only getting the bonus to damage, I might have to rethink my feats! Hmmm...perhaps if it was changed to requiring no action, but you only get the damage bonus on one attack instead of for a number of rounds equal to your charisma. Would that balance out? It would be like a lesser Smite Evil -- you'd get a chance to bump up a single attack, but you wouldn't have to give up an entire round of effectiveness to get the benefit.
?
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
reapersaurus said:
Templates or ECL races (Pixie's a good one), Inherent bonuses...
... and if you're playing 3E, you can try and slip DotF's Command Armor past your DM
-Hyp.
reapersaurus
Explorer
Lay on Hands AND Divine Grace are now at 2nd level.
And the benefits of a high CHA a Paladin gets are in leui of all the feats the Fighter gets.
Collectively, the mainly-defensive abilities the Paladin gets really don't add up to much, compared with combat-rocking feats.
In other words, you can take your Lay on Hands (no save!) and your Aura of Courage & Divine Health, and I'll raise you Improved Trip, or something like that.
And the benefits of a high CHA a Paladin gets are in leui of all the feats the Fighter gets.
Collectively, the mainly-defensive abilities the Paladin gets really don't add up to much, compared with combat-rocking feats.
In other words, you can take your Lay on Hands (no save!) and your Aura of Courage & Divine Health, and I'll raise you Improved Trip, or something like that.
reapersaurus
Explorer
Templates and ECL races are invariably too 'expensive' to make an effective fighter with.Hypersmurf said:Templates or ECL races (Pixie's a good one), Inherent bonuses...
... and if you're playing 3E, you can try and slip DotF's Command Armor past your DM
Inherent bonuses are too expensive for anythin below 12th level or so.
And a LOT of people are quick to nerf DotF's Command Armor.
There NEEDS to be more ways to raise your CHA.
Not having as many ways to raise your CHA as there is STR is perpetuating the "Cha is a dump stat" approach/mindset.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
reapersaurus said:
I'm not certain I agree... you just need to look for the synergies.
Take the Half-Celestial. The Con bonus makes up, over time, for the loss of a few hit dice. The Str bonus helps compensate for the reduced BAB. The Cha bonus makes up for the lower saving throws, for a Paladin.
You are behind on iterative attacks for a while, and that's about it... and in exchange, you get all the SLAs, resistances, wings, and all the benefits a paladin receives from high Wis and Cha...
... plus it's a natural "fit" to have an angelic champion of Goodness
Well, yeah. Half-Cel Superpals come into their own around 16th-20th.
-Hyp.
