Does Divine Might require an action to use?

[jgsugden]

We're all agreed that it is a standard action to activate this feat, right? And that it begins to count immediately, as all durations do, so the round of casting counts as 1 rd of the duration ...

This is a grossly out of whack feat. A high level paladin that started out with a 14 charisma can easily end up with a 24 charisma. That is 6 rounds of attacking with a +7 to damage on 4 attacker per round: 168 damage. Or, if he goes 2 weapon and devotes some feats and is hasted, it could be 336 extra damage.

One fairly good indicator that this feat is too strong is that everyone wants to take it with their paladin/melee cleric.

In my games, I tweaked it down. The prerequisites are increased to 16 charisma (as well as the ability to turn undead and a 13 strength) and the effect is changed to a +3 luck bonus to damage (thus it does not stack with divine favor) for 1 rd/point of charisma bonus. The paladin player was sad to see it 'nerfed', but he still took it and still thinks it was worth his time.

 

[Lamoni]

Lay on Hands AND Divine Grace are now at 2nd level.
And the benefits of a high CHA a Paladin gets are in leui of all the feats the Fighter gets.
Collectively, the mainly-defensive abilities the Paladin gets really don't add up to much, compared with combat-rocking feats.

In other words, you can take your Lay on Hands (no save!) and your Aura of Courage & Divine Health, and I'll raise you Improved Trip, or something like that.

I agree, but I like it that way. If you try to make each class as effective at fighting as the fighter, then why have a fighter class? I think that there should still be a reason to choose fighter as a class (and not just 1-2 levels for more feats). The Paladin does do quite well in combat, but not as well as a fighter. He also has a few things so that in a few situations, he is more effective than a fighter. A 10th level Paladin with +5 Charisma can use lay on hands on an undead creature while smiting evil for an easy 60 damage that gets past damage reduction and where there is no save.

You choose a Paladin and you get some fun abilities, plus a mount. Also, when comparing a Paladin to a Fighter I think it would be more fair to compare the Paladin and his mount to a fighter. Using my Celestial Dire Wolf, I can flank enemies without help from the party and get two full attacks a round with a free trip attempt each time the wolf bites. However, the other abilities are what make the Paladin a fun option. If you are only interested in being the best fighter, pick fighter. The Paladin does well with his better saves. A wizard or cleric can usually easily disable a fighter, but they have a harder time against a Paladin. It is also nice to not have to worry about being afraid of the dragon or getting diseased from the mummy.

 

[Thanee]

AFAIK, it was changed to Free Action.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Stalker0]

Personally, the standard action to activate is what really lowers the power of the feat. Sure I can get a lot more damage in later in the fight, but most of a fight is over in 3 or so rounds. I could be full attacking in that first round, instead I'm just powering up while the fighter goes to town.

So that said, I think a free action is good. However, I like the idea of the bonus only applying to one attack (or even the first successful attack). For it to add to all damage attacks for 7 rounds means it just became far far superior to weapon spec.

 

[Darklone]

AFAIK, it was changed to Free Action.

Yeah,... except that they didn't call it a change, they assumed it to be that way in the first place (which was not the case).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yeah...

Well, no

The rules state a standard action.

The made-up fantasy in the DotF FAQ states "not an action at all".

Nowhere is it defined as a free action.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

... made-up fantasy...

Some custserv dudes remembered that it's a fantasy game

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

Personally, the standard action to activate is what really lowers the power of the feat. Sure I can get a lot more damage in later in the fight, but most of a fight is over in 3 or so rounds. I could be full attacking in that first round, instead I'm just powering up while the fighter goes to town.

Actually I find it works out quite well (I'm playing a homeruled aura-paladin with free Divine feats instead of the mount and cure disease powers). Since I'm in heavy armor it usually takes me a round to get into combat (we have a lot of ranged attacks with good Spot/Listen skills). Since I have nothing to do during that movement action I spend that time to activate an aura.

I think I'll try and find a magic item that will duplicate the Quicken Turning feat. That will make things easier by far.

- Ma'at

 

[Otterscrubber]

Actually I find it works out quite well (I'm playing a homeruled aura-paladin with free Divine feats instead of the mount and cure disease powers). Since I'm in heavy armor it usually takes me a round to get into combat (we have a lot of ranged attacks with good Spot/Listen skills). Since I have nothing to do during that movement action I spend that time to activate an aura.

I think I'll try and find a magic item that will duplicate the Quicken Turning feat. That will make things easier by far.

- Ma'at

I agree, when in combat you often have to move then attack so if you activate this feat you only lose one attack. That is certainly worth getting a nice bonus to damage for a few rounds, even with a low CHA. If you have a wiz/sor who can haste you all the better.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

We're all agreed that it is a standard action to activate this feat, right? And that it begins to count immediately, as all durations do, so the round of casting counts as 1 rd of the duration ...

This is a grossly out of whack feat. A high level paladin that started out with a 14 charisma can easily end up with a 24 charisma. That is 6 rounds of attacking with a +7 to damage on 4 attacker per round: 168 damage. Or, if he goes 2 weapon and devotes some feats and is hasted, it could be 336 extra damage.

OTOH, the Fighter boosted his Str instead, and is doing a lot more damage if he Power Attacks at the cost of one feat spent (Power Attack) instead of two for the Paladin (Power Attack, Divine Might).

IMNSHO the feat is too weak if it takes an action to activate. It is generally a losing proposition unless the combat lasts beyond round 3. Call me crazy, but I prefer feats that will actually help me without needing to stop and read tea leaves first.

As a "free action", it is probably too strong for reasons stated above.

My proposed fix would be to have it last 1 minute if activated as an action, or last 1 round if activated as a free action.