Does Divine Might require an action to use?

[jgsugden]

OTOH, the Fighter boosted his Str instead, and is doing a lot more damage if he Power Attacks at the cost of one feat spent (Power Attack) instead of two for the Paladin (Power Attack, Divine Might).

IMNSHO the feat is too weak if it takes an action to activate. It is generally a losing proposition unless the combat lasts beyond round 3. Call me crazy, but I prefer feats that will actually help me without needing to stop and read tea leaves first.

As a "free action", it is probably too strong for reasons stated above.

My proposed fix would be to have it last 1 minute if activated as an action, or last 1 round if activated as a free action.

1.) The paladin can raise his strength too. It will probably be a bit behind a pure fighter's strength, but not by much. Which do you think will be more: A fighter's strength bonus or the combined bonus of a paladin's strength and charisma?

2.) Considering that the feat lasts for most, if not all, of a combat, it is not too weak if it requires a standard action to activate. You'll find combats where your foes jump upon your right away where it makes no sense to use the feat. You'll find more battles (in most campaigns) where you get a chance to act before the two sides can close for combat. A cleric is likely to have many things worth doing during that time, a paladin not so much.

3.) Don't eat things that can stain in bed, dangnabbit! Do you know how hard it is to get berry stains off the sheets?

 

[Trainz]

Thanee... where is it specified that it is a free action in 3.5 ?

You see, I'm playing a Paladin right now...

Other things people didn't mention. It doesn't matter that it takes a standard action to activate. A Paladin with 22 Cha can use it... 9 times per day. How many battles do you fight during a game session ? Yeah, zactly. In a dungeon, a Paladin can more or less safely activate it before entering a room, and chances are, he will use it, and it will already be up.

I can picture it as a Paladin muttering a prayer to his god while noding at the rogue to open the door and charging in the room sword blazing with divine radiance. Beaucoup cool. Sometimes to find the room... empty. Oh well...

Another thing: In 3.0, a Paladin could take this feet at 3rd level. Now he can only take it at 6th. That kinda nerfs it a bit, and puts it more on par with the feat's potency. Note that 2 levels later (8th), your paladin potentially has 20 Cha *drool*. That's +5 damage +-75% of the time, +5 on all saves, and 40 hit points of Lay on Hands. Très cool.

Oh... I forgot... another +5 to hit and +8 damage twice per day on your friendly BBEG.

Énormément cool.

 

[Darklone]

Thanee... where is it specified that it is a free action in 3.5 ?

Nothing in 3.5 yet, the splatbooks have not been revised yet. But the last wording of the FAQ said it's not an action.

You see, I'm playing a Paladin right now...

Doesn't everyone who's interested in that discussion ?

Another thing: In 3.0, a Paladin could take this feet at 3rd level. Now he can only take it at 6th. That kinda nerfs it a bit, and puts it more on par with the feat's potency. Note that 2 levels later (8th), your paladin potentially has 20 Cha *drool*. That's +5 damage +-75% of the time, +5 on all saves, and 40 hit points of Lay on Hands. Très cool.

Oh... I forgot... another +5 to hit and +8 damage twice per day on your friendly BBEG.

Énormément cool.

+8 to damage? ah... smite evil

Right about the feat now at level6.

 

[Trainz]

Nothing in 3.5 yet, the splatbooks have not been revised yet. But the last wording of the FAQ said it's not an action.

Well I'll be damned.

It IS a free action. So far.

Well, the fact that you can't take it before 6th kinda nerfs it somewhat.

Right...

Oh well, I guess my Paly will kick arse.

 

[Darklone]

Talk to your DM how he wants it. And yes, it kicks arse a lot even as standard action.

 

[jgsugden]

AFAIK, the Sage clarified later that activating the ability does take a standard action. The FAQ answer says it's not an action at all, and he claimed that he was referring to the fact that once it has been triggered, it simply applies to all attacks (as long as it it active) without requiring a separate action. No, I don't have a reference, and yes, the FAQ answer does seem fairly clear, so it does seem like the Sage was backpeddling on a patently wrong answer. Still, I'd go with the standard action to activate myself. It's too good otherwise.

I'd keep this in mind. It should *not* be a free action for balance reasons. It just doesn't make sense. It should be like using a 1 rd/lvl spell. AS a free action, it is too strong. +chr bonus to damage for basically every fight is too strong, even if it costs a standard action.

 

[jgsugden]

As an FYI, tI was thrown a subtle hint that there will be an equivalent book to the Complete Warrior for priests. In it, some of our favorite splat book feats would be revisted and rebalanced. I assume this is a very liekly candidate.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Not a Free Action! Even in the DotF FAQ, not a Free Action!

In the DotF FAQ, it's "not an action".

That means that you can activate it on an AoO, for example, which you couldn't do if it were a Free Action.

All of that's only important if you don't think the FAQ author obviously didn't read the feat before typing his reply, of course.

-Hyp.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

1.) The paladin can raise his strength too. It will probably be a bit behind a pure fighter's strength, but not by much. Which do you think will be more: A fighter's strength bonus or the combined bonus of a paladin's strength and charisma?

True, but it doesn't matter...

For example: Your Cha 24 Paladin might well have a Str 20. But a comparable Fighter is likely to have a Str 26 (to be conservative). That is a +3/+3 advantage from Str. For a two-handed weapon that becomes +3/+4. When Power Attacking with a two-handed weapon, that becomes +0/+10 which is much bigger than the bonus from Divine Might (+0/+7). Net effect: Paladin spends one Feat (AND one Action) just to stay in the same ballpark as a Fighter.

Note that even for a one-handed weapon and PA that +3/+3 becomes +0/+6 -- very close at the cost of one less feat than the Paladin is spending.

Another example: A TWF Paladin is a viable exploit of Divine Might. But it eats up three precious feats: Power Attack, Divine Might, TWF. A Fighter could easily spend three feats (TWF, ITWF, Weapon Specialization) to generate the more damage. Remember that the Fighter has more Str.

In context, the Paladin is not gaining some inappropriately large advantage out of Divine Might. It is more like he is spending a precious resource (a Feat) in a struggle to stop falling so far behind.

2.) Considering that the feat lasts for most, if not all, of a combat, it is not too weak if it requires a standard action to activate. You'll find combats where your foes jump upon your right away where it makes no sense to use the feat. You'll find more battles (in most campaigns) where you get a chance to act before the two sides can close for combat. A cleric is likely to have many things worth doing during that time, a paladin not so much.

Sometimes true. OTOH, it is rarely the case that the Paladin doesn't have plenty of other prep options: Bless Weapon, Magic Weapon, Protection from Evil, Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, Magic Circle vs. Evil, or a miscellaneous magic item or potion. The question becomes: Is Divine Might so much better than other prep actions a Paladin can already do on round one that it justifies spending one Feat (or two Feats if you count Power Attack)? Note that the Paladin already have plenty of option for getting a bonus +2 or +4. Is a +5 or +6 or +7 such a drastic improvement. IMHO, usually no -- but that may depend on your campaign style.

3.) Don't eat things that can stain in bed, dangnabbit! Do you know how hard it is to get berry stains off the sheets?

Berries?!? I would call that a Merry/Pippin moment.

 

[AGGEMAM]

There is actually logic behind the FAQ making it not an action or actually it should have been a free action. The prereqs of the feat makes it possible not to gain any advantage from it in some cases. If you have a cha bonus of +1 then with the standard action rule you would only get a damage bonus if you were lucky enough to get an AoO.