Does Dragon Magic Sorcerer = Trap?

[Khaalis]

Personally, I see the biggest trap in the Sorcerer being that their Burst/Blast spells are as dangerous to their party as to the enemy. All of the spells we've seen so far are "Each creature in burst/blast" not 'Each enemy'. It will take a lot of tactics for a burst/blast build sorcerer to effectively use their powers without torching their own group.

 

[WalterKovacs]

A note about the AC issue:

They get a (rest of) the encounter long +2 to AC when first bloodied ... which is when they'll start really needing it. Also, with their strength, they can afford to get shield proficiencies, and hide proficiency with just a bit of con. It may mean spending more on defensive feats than other classes, but they have the stats to get the feats and the opportunity to take those feats if they choose.

 

[deleteme123456]

Oh I don't doubt that getting that +2 will help, but even with that +2 you're at 17, which means you're back to what everyone else is to. Still a toss-up for the monster, attack the defender at AC 19-20 or attack you at AC 17 with a -2 for being marked?

Yes, you qualify for most defensive feats known to man (or woman ) [if you start with Dex 13 you should qualify for every defensive feat currently available, at least by epic, on the other hand, I'm not sure two-weapon defense is really on your short list], but you're a striker, you should be doing damage. I guess we'll just have to see how it actually plays. May depend on how your group is setup, do you have extra healing, do you have 2 defenders, other melee characters providing distractions, etc.

 

[DerekSTheRed]

If you think a low reflex is insurmountable, you need to play a different game. Otherwise, get used to having at least one low defense score. Sorcerer is better than most since at least it's primary and secondary stats are different defenses.

Sorry.

It's not insurmountable. I really see a combination of factors that can lead to a catch 22 if your not careful. Because their blasts are not enemy only, the Dragon Magic Sorcerer (DMS) has to pop out behind the defender to get a clear shot at multiple baddies. If the DMS is not careful this could leave them open for melee attacks. But that's not that big a problem since they get their strength to AC right?

Well they are also close to the defender and will be the target of several bursts which tend to target reflex. The DMS has two choices, pump up constitution to get more HPs to soak the damage, or pump reflex via high intelligence or dexterity or gaining shield proficiecy to take less damage. The latter option seems suboptimal and since a higher constitution scores works for Dragonborn, that's probably the route I'll go.

STR: 16
CON: 14
DEX: 10
INT: 13
WIS: 8
CHA: 18

This is the character that won't mind going last. Let all the defenders engage the enemy first and then move in. I'll also probably pick up Leather Armor at level 1 and Hurl Dragonbreath to get at least one burst attack at level 2.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Oh I don't doubt that getting that +2 will help, but even with that +2 you're at 17, which means you're back to what everyone else is to. Still a toss-up for the monster, attack the defender at AC 19-20 or attack you at AC 17 with a -2 for being marked?

At the same time, defenders are supposed to have a leg up on everyone else defensewise. The enemy given a "same defence either way" option will either attack the defender or let the defender's mark based interupts get used. Not everyone is starting with AC that high ... of the strikers, it's really just the archer ranger that is using their primary attack stat with hide armor. Most other strikers are closer to 16 (and while a +2 for leather is worth taking a feat for ... most strikers won't bother for a feat that nets them only a +1 to defense ... although a rogue would definitely go for a double sword.) The sorceror has to choose between abandoning his Reflex defense, or starting with a lower than average AC [for non-defenders] AC. Ultimately, being a tempting target for people to go after instead of the defender has it's perks. In my experience, strikers often get to sort of switch roles with the defenders, making themselves targets to allow the defender to dish out a bit more damage.

 

[DracoSuave]

1) Avengers have 18 AC? How do you know this? There's so much assumption in that table it's silly.

Secondly, you might have have high Reflex, but wabbity boobula your Fortitude save is decent! No getting pushed around for you! Reflex tends to be straight damage, but Fortitude tends to be the stuff that puts you in a bad place.

 

[deleteme123456]

1) Avengers have 18 AC? How do you know this? There's so much assumption in that table it's silly.

Secondly, you might have have high Reflex, but wabbity boobula your Fortitude save is decent! No getting pushed around for you! Reflex tends to be straight damage, but Fortitude tends to be the stuff that puts you in a bad place.

Because there's an avenger character sheet running around the 'net that's really not hard to find. The example character has 16 dex (which could be primary, yes, it's hard to know with the way those pregens are, but as a divine character, my vote would be that the 16 he has in WIS is actually primary), and his feats clearly state: LEATHER ARMOR PROFICIENCY. That's +5, and if you read the sheet, there's a class feature to make up the other +3. I clearly stated all other assumptions: 18 primary, 16 secondary, 1 defensive feat, level 1 characters. Not all of those characters WOULD use the defensive feat, but just to see what would happen if they did, so everyone was on approximately equal footing.

Edit:
Furthermore, I think those assumptions are quite valid. Most characters except for extreme min-maxers go 18/16 in primary/secondary stats. You get weird exceptions with MAD characters like Melee Rangers and Pallys, but they use heavy armor anyway so their stats don't matter much. Some wizards and archer rangers go for 20 in their primary stats, but all that does is push their AC up and the point is to show that the sorc is low relative to other classes, which tend to fall out a little closer, at least relative to role.

The things that stand out to me from that table are the sorc's low AC, the avenger's high AC, and the warden is a little low esp. if he's going to be your only defender. Remember that at low heroic, AC is targetted almost all of the time.