Does everyone take Superior Weapon Proficiencies?

[Elder-Basilisk]

It sounds as though Adventurers Vault has contributed towards this effect, since three of the four superior weapons are from there!

My game is PHB/DMG/MM only, and I'm not seeing any superior weapons yet (including dead guys the party has had two paladins, two fighters, three clerics, three warlords, a rogue, two rangers, three warlocks and two wizards so far!)

Possibly a function of power creep with AV?

it's not all power creep in the usual sense of the term. Before adventurer's vault, there were only a few superior weapons:
A superior reach weapon flail
A superior one-handed sword (that also happened to be ever so slightly superior to the two-handed sword because the greatsword is a lousy weapon)
A superior light blade

there were no superior axes, hammers, spears, javalins, one-handed flails, or daggers.

The character who wanted to spend a feat to get a better weapon before Adventurer's Vault did so if he wielded a sword and shield. If he wielded a warhammer, on the other hand, he was out of luck. 4th edition's tying of various weapon feats to various statistics (Hammer/Con/Hammer Rhythm, etc) means that, for most planned characters (which is most characters), their weapon type of choice is set at character creation. The dwarf with a 16 Str/18 Con is going to wield hammers. The dwarf with the 18 Str/15 Con is going to wield axes, etc. So what happened when adventurers vault brought out superior axes, hammers, etc is that the characters who were already committed by build to wield a type of weapon that was not supported by a superior weapon in the PHB, gained access to superior weapons, went out, and bought them.

Now, there is a little power creep involved. Dwarven Weapon Training and Eladrin Soldier are classic examples of power creep via future expansion, much like polymorph or druid wildshape were in 3rd edition. You have access to all hammers, axes, spears, and longswords, just wait until a better one comes out and you have access to it. Likewise, the double sword works out as a clear and obvious upgrade for the previous superior light blade (the rapier), largely because the characters who previously used the rapier did not have much to do with their off-hand anyway. But power creep in 4th edition is better seen in the powers of the Adventurer's Vault items (encounter powers on numerous magic items, etc) and the classes, backgrounds, and feats in the Forgotten Realms book, and the powers, feats, and alternate class features (the latter mostly for fighters) in Martial Power than in the superior weapons from Adventurer's Vault.

 

[Ibixat]

*Shrug* Parrying dagger and two weapon defense give you +2 ac and +1 ref defense, you don't need the 13 strength and you can get it in the heroic tier.

Two weapon defense has a pre-requisite of Two weapon Fighting. I'll take 2 ac and reflex for 2 feats sooner than 2 ac 1 reflex and 1 damage for 3 feats.

And I think overall shields can get better always on enchantments than the parry dagger would, though the enchantment from bloodthirsty weapon does NOT say it applies to attacks with itself only, so that would be a viable offhander parry dagger for a boost.
"Gain a +1 item bonus to attack rolls against bloodied targets, and add an item bonus equal to the enhancement bonus of this weapon to damage rolls against bloodied targets."
Unlike most weapons that say "with this weapon" when they have a property that one leaves it open.

A defensive parry dagger would boost your second wind defense bonus as well. Hmm now you have me searching the book for weapons that have properties that are not limited to their own use...
prime shot weapon "Property: You deal +1 damage if no ally is closer to the
target than you are."
Oooh staggering weapon... Subtle weapons, this is kinda funny... I'm so going to start getting some of these just to carry them around in my off hand for random bonuses.

 

[elecgraystone]

Gruns said that the rogue would NEVER think about a superior weapon because they were going daggermaster. You can see my point can't you? It's a viable option that doesn't degrade his dagger master options in the least.

 

[Gruns]

Oh yeah.

How is this actually working?
Considering that you only get melee basic attack (based on str, not dex) with both the Commanders Strike or Opening Shove AND that you can only deal Sneak Attack damage once per round (excluding some PP's), I can't really see this being too effective tactic except in very specific circumstances.

Like if Rogue was a Brutal Scoundrel with str at least 14-16 and having missed with his attack previously in same round.

Ah. I suppose I should mention our "Accidental House Rules". As we were all total 4E noobs during character creation (of course), we didn't realize the "One Sneak Attack per Round" actually meant per ROUND and not per TURN. Thus, they saw Commander's Strike and thought of the "combo" with a rogue, and well, by the time we realized it was wrong, it was too late. If only they would have listended to me in the first place and made the TacLord a BattleCleric. The rogue is in fact an Artful Dodger (with 12 Str) and so he misses his Basic Attacks quite often. Much more often than he mathematically should, it seems. And the Warlord is always telling him he sucks, etc... Our sessions are very Keystone Caper-esque. In fact last session the comment was made about how this group would be more effective if everyone just ran around throwing cream pies and whacking each other with rubber hoses. For example, the rogue will spend several minutes thinking of the perfect place to Positioning Strike someone for the most strategic benefit to gain flanking with the Eladrin, and on her turn, the Eladrin will absentmindedly Fey Step away to a different enemy. It's sort of sad, really...
We also don't abide by the Melee range part of Commander's Strike, and I allow her to shout out orders to anyone that can hear her. Most of the time this doesn't matter, as she's usually on melee with everyone anyway. Well, up until the time she's the one needed to provide the flanking bonus...
It's a small group of just 3 PCs, so while these two things definitely help, they don't break the game for us. Perhaps if we were a more optimized group, or you know, didn't absolutely suck when it comes to tactics...

Later!
Gruns

 

[Gruns]

Hmm...

Gruns said that the rogue would NEVER think about a superior weapon because they were going daggermaster. You can see my point can't you? It's a viable option that doesn't degrade his dagger master options in the least.

Hmm... He already has the Two Weapon Fighter feats, for flavor reasons, (and the minor damage/defense bonuses). I think I'll throw a Parrying Dagger into a loot pile when he hits level 11 (and can get the Daggermaster PP). I'll be sure to pick a property that is "Always on" so to speak, such as Defensive. This makes sense on a PARRYING Dagger. Probably just a +2 since I don't want to expend too much on a weapon we never uses as a weapon.
Honestly, he probably doesn't even know about Parrying Daggers since I'm the only one that has an actual copy of AV. The other players have all looked through it, but you can only glean so much in the 10-15 minutes they combed through the book.
Later!
Gruns

 

[elecgraystone]

I know what you mean Gruns. I don't have a copy of AV myself, so I've had to look through it like your player, 10 or 15 min at a time. I think he'll be pleased when he gets one in some loot and finds out what it does.

 

[Nail]

"She also just swapped out Eladrin Soldier for some other feat, since most of the time her standard action is her telling the rogue to sneak attack something, instead of her actually attacking.

...you know that Sneak Attack damage can only be applied once per round, right? So if the rogue has already hit with a Sneak Attack, that Commander's Strike of the warlord ain't doing nearly as much.

 

[elecgraystone]

Check out post #64 Nail. It'll explain everything to you.

 

[Herschel]

I'm running an Assault Swormage and really haven't found a reason to use Superior Weapon as a feat when there are better ones for what I want to do. Min/maxing that little bit of damage doesn't fit the flovor or what I'm trying to do. Intelligent Blademaster has been much better because I rolled a great stat and can pump Int for both accuracy and defense. As a defender, I've found this to be a very good thing. The second feat is Improved Initiative because in the groups I play in, it makes interacting with the rogue much more efficient then trying to just deal damage on my own. The ability to set up flanks and do good damage with a solid defense has been better than just dealing better damage myself I feel.

 

[Nail]

Check out post #64 Nail. It'll explain everything to you.

So now that they know the rule...they aren't correcting themselves? To each his own, I guess. Our group makes mistakes all the time; when we find out, we correct them. Simple.