Does evil mean Evil? Is a paladin free to act against evil?

D&D is predicated on wiping out vast quantities of evil indigenous species. It isn't realistic to have moral absolutes be the rule instead of the exception, but it's the way the game is usually played.

So, if it were my paladin? I'd usually talk to the creature and determine its intent before taking offensive action. You never know, maybe it could be converted! Kill an evil creature and the forces of hell are strengthened; far better to try and change its attitude. It's not like you won't have a chance to kill it later if things fall through. :p

On a metagame level, I've known way too many rat-bastard DMs to want to charge in with sword swinging and ask questions later.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Unless you have a law in the land which says "If paladin thinks you are evil he/she may kill you on sight." then no. However a detect evil maybe grounds for a closer examination of a person (ie spy on him, find out who are his associates and whether they are up to no good). While some evil people are murderous pychopaths, some are just self serving, manipulative or domineering. Think of a loyal mercenary they kill for pay, they don't care who they fight for, but they always attempt to get the job done (Lawful Evil), is that grounds to kill them out of hand? I don't think so, but YMMV.
 

So, if it were my paladin? I'd usually talk to the creature and determine its intent before taking offensive action. You never know, maybe it could be converted! Kill an evil creature and the forces of hell are strengthened; far better to try and change its attitude.
Would you do this even if the stranger were a goblin? Ogre? Dragon? Demon?

How about a pirate? Blackguard? Cleric?

Quasqueton
 

Quasqueton said:
A paladin meets a stranger in the wilderness. Detect evil reveals that the stranger is evil....Does evil (as detected by spell or ability) mean Evil? Or do you beleive there are degrees of evilness, passive evilness?
*Snickers at Piratecat's reply....*

The way I usually look at it is this: If it's an orc, a goblin, something like that.. it's probably dead. If it's a person or otherwise normally 'not automatically a foe of mankind creature', then....

Yes, the spell reveals them to be evil. They're beyond what most people think of as 'bad' - the guy that cheats on his wife, the man who steals from the beggers cup, the woman who gives false measure at the market, the kid who beats a dog.. all those people could be and probably are Neutral; they're doing evil and good acts as the normal course of their life permits. The kid who beats the dog may go home to help his sick mother. The merchant who cheats the miller may also repent and decide to donate bread to the local Pelor church.. these people do 'bad' things, and even some things that are indeed 'evil'; they may murder and rape and whatever.. but they haven't done these things enough or with evil enough intent to drop down to the 'evil' catagory.

The kid who beats the dog for the pure pleasure of the act, to hear the helpless whines and yelps, who kicks the dog back even as the small thing tries to move to him and expose it's belly, wondering why the hurting doesn't stop even though it's submitted; the kid who likes seeing something smaller and weaker than him submit to him, and then watches with a smile as the life leaves the furry body.. who lays awake replaying the images and sounds in his mind and wondering what it might be like to, say, do that to one of the smaller kids in the neighborhood.. ok, then he's crossed over to Evil.

The merchant who cheats the miller, and who also cheats those who come to him for loans. She knows that they can't pay back the money they've borrowed, and still she refuses to lower her rates. She knows that she's the wealthiest person in town willing to lend to these ragged farmers, and that now.. they owe her. She owns them in a way, and the law is on her side. Maybe she even told them the consequences of what would happen if they failed to pay promptly, but it doesn't matter. She has power over them now, the power to have them tossed out of their homes, have the miller's handsome son marry her to pay off his family's debts, to take revenge on the fishmonger who spit at her when she was a child.. OK, she's crossed over to Evil as well.

Even so, the Paladin might not be sure of these things, depending on how experienced or paranoid he is. There are a lot of things that might be messing up his power, god-given as it is. So he probably adopts the stance of 'wait and see'; the person has detected as Evil and now 'bears watching'. He knows there is corruption at this person's heart; that they have in that indefinable means given themselves over to hatred, petty revenge, joy in the pain and misery of others; they actively work against the things most would consider Good: community, health, happiness, peace and safety, consideration, etc...

I'd say he certainly has the option of dealing with that person in some way. Probably not killing them outright, if for the sole reason that they may be part of a group of evil people.
 

MerricB said:
According to the Book of Exalted Deeds, (also known as the Paladin's Handbook), you must first see if the evil character wishes to repent. If he refuses, you may smite him down. :)

*worships MerricB for laying down the best Paladin's Guidelines ever*

:D

In all seriousness, though, I think there is nothing at all which would warrant "smiting on sight" as a rule of thumb. It depends on how you handle this sort of thing in your campaign, naturally, but IMO the paladin only has a "right to smite" those enemies that are clearly and utterly evil, with only an infinitesimally low chance for things to be different than expected: Undead, fiends, and the like.
 

Quasqueton said:
A paladin meets a stranger in the wilderness. Detect evil reveals that the stranger is evil.

Does the paladin have the right and/or duty and/or option to attack and kill that stranger based solely on knowing his/her/its alignment?

That depends... did the paladin notice something amiss with the stranger from observing or conversing with it, and decide to Detect Evil[/] to confirm his/her suspicions? If it's just a PaladinBot v 5.1.2.beta3 firing off its Detect Evil subroutine as the first step whenever it encounters a new creature or object, that's another matter entirely.

Great, now I'm imagining a Paladin with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder constantly washing his hands, Detecting Evil, and checking the lock on the door over & over again...
 

Has anyone noticed that this seems to be one of the most recurrent topics on these boards (along with roleplaying social skills)?

These conundrums are the reason why I have altered the Detect Evil ability in my game. If the paladin Detects Evil on creatures who do not have the evil descriptor, they will get a shading depending upon the relative evil of the individual, and that evil is filtered through the eyes of the paladin's Deity. Those with the evil descriptor will radiate as pure evil and the paladin is expected to do something . It does not necessarily mean the paladin must attack as that act may be a knowingly futile effort and the paladin's certain death will do less to thwart the evil than surviving to call for assitance.

In the case of, lets say, an orc in the woods, the creature will probably radiate a moderate amount of evil. The paladin needs to use his or her discretion at that point. If there is nothing overt about the creature's behavior and the paladin's God does not have some kind of thing about "Destroy all Orcs" or something, the paladin can probably act however he or she sees fit and would not have to fear the sudden "that orc you killed was simply going home to feed his kids, or the orc you let go killed two villagers the next day! You are stipped of your powers!" retribution. As a DM, I only expect that the character is played with some kind of consistency, and with a good idea of the values and code the paladin ascribes to.
 

Not in my campaign. A paladin has to be Lawful Good. While the 'good' part may wish to go forth and smite evil willy-nilly, the 'lawful' part requires more circumspection. Just as an honest (LG) cop wouldn't gun down the criminal who got off on a technicality, neither would the paladin exact justice without due process. Or at least due provocation.
 

I use a gamist approach. No bashing "Faint" evil auras. Those are either regular folks that are bad (less than 10 HD) or raw initiates (1st level clerics) of evil gods. Once you're into the "Moderate" evil, you're either a very bad person (11+ HD of evil) or dedicated to evil. Then you're fair game. Demons/devils etc are always fair game. If it's got horns and tail, smite!


Of course there are legal ramifications. "He was evil," isn't a strong defense in court, and you're likely to go to jail/gallows anyway.

PS
 

Remove ads

Top