does hit point loss = damage

[WhimsyTheFae]

I picked no, although I am guilty of describing it as physical damage 90% of the time.

I am not a fan of hitpoints and this is one of the primary reasons for my recent switch to True20 (I still have one D&D group, but perhaps one day...)

 

[Hussar]

FOr me, I think the best answer would be: sometimes yes and sometimes no. Damage CAN be a physical hit or it CAN be fatigue. That's the whole point of an abstract system. Because it's abstract, you can't really tell. So, poisons do damage without actually hitting anyone, but, getting a sword through the soft and fleshies does damage too.

 

[rvalle]

For me one of the major places the "HP's as damage" breaks down is when you start fighting something like a Giant. If that thing HITS you, with either a melee weapon or a boulder, you're dead. Or at least broken and mangled.

rv

 

[Desdichado]

I go for the % option listed above; that's the option that I grok the most. The idea of losing hit points without actually taking any damage makes some sense to me, but in play it just feels too weird.

 

[genshou]

In melee combat this is relatively easy to handle: "You parry the blow and feel the shock down your arm - take 3 points of damage."

Where it gets tricky is ranged combat, especially with firearms - this is one of the aspects of d20 Modern, which uses the same hit point conventions as D&D, that seems to hang-up a number of players as "unrealistic." With an arrow or a crossbow bolt, "deflected by your armor" or "stuck in your shield" can usually serve, but that gets much harder with a .50-cal bullet "hitting" a guy in a business suit - there are only so many "grazes" you can get away with before credulity becomes strained.

That's why, for me, a hit isn't always a "hit." It can be a near miss that showers the character with bits of masonry or glass, a ball that passes through a flap of clothing or hits a piece of equipment instead, or simply the hot kiss of air from a round passing where the character's head was a moment before.

To quote the second Disney Aladdin movie (whichever one it was). "You'd be surprised what you can live through." If players are having trouble with perception of "realism" after a character has taken multiple gunshot wounds, point them to google. You'd be amazed at what old news bits I dug up searching on this topic a moment ago. And none of the people mentioned were "heroes" by any sense of the word–they were just ordinary people that survived something that is almost always fatal–multiple gunshot wounds, sometimes to the head.

 

[LostSoul]

PC: "I hit AC 25 and 21, and did 14 points of damage."

DM: "Your arrows both sink deep into his head!"

PC: "Woo hoo!"

DM: "He charges you and swings... does 22 damage."

PC: "Wha? Okay, I take a 5' step and shoot him again."

DM: "Two more arrows in his head. He sprints away around a corner."

PC: "I deal with these other scum, then chase him."

DM: "Okay, 8 hours later, you see a group of travelling pilgrims. One of them has four arrows sticking out of his head."

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

To quote the second Disney Aladdin movie (whichever one it was). "You'd be surprised what you can live through." If players are having trouble with perception of "realism" after a character has taken multiple gunshot wounds, point them to google. You'd be amazed at what old news bits I dug up searching on this topic a moment ago. And none of the people mentioned were "heroes" by any sense of the word–they were just ordinary people that survived something that is almost always fatal–multiple gunshot wounds, sometimes to the head.

While this is a good point, and most certainly true, the real life cases don't typically involve the same individual on a regular basis. I don't mean to diminish your argument, but rarely does a person say "Yep, I was shot four times in the chest yesterday, three times in the head last week and twice in the stomach today...". That sort of scenario, whether it be stabbed, shot, lasered, etc. happens somewhat regularly in a hitpoint based game (if the DM describes it as such, of course).

 

[Sundragon2012]

PC: "I hit AC 25 and 21, and did 14 points of damage."

DM: "Your arrows both sink deep into his head!"

PC: "Woo hoo!"

DM: "He charges you and swings... does 22 damage."

PC: "Wha? Okay, I take a 5' step and shoot him again."

DM: "Two more arrows in his head. He sprints away around a corner."

PC: "I deal with these other scum, then chase him."

DM: "Okay, 8 hours later, you see a group of travelling pilgrims. One of them has four arrows sticking out of his head."

ROFLMAO


Chris

 

[Aaron L]

I would say that near misses and the arrow that misses hitting you in the eye by a hairs breadth are hit point losses. Things that you haven't actually dodged, but avoided by luck and chance. Usually it's fatigue, pulled muscles, scratches, things like that, until you take the hit that drops you below 0 and runs you through.

 

[genshou]

While this is a good point, and most certainly true, the real life cases don't typically involve the same individual on a regular basis. I don't mean to diminish your argument, but rarely does a person say "Yep, I was shot four times in the chest yesterday, three times in the head last week and twice in the stomach today...". That sort of scenario, whether it be stabbed, shot, lasered, etc. happens somewhat regularly in a hitpoint based game (if the DM describes it as such, of course).

I was being somewhat anecdotal, you know; I am fairly aware that a gunshot could simply have dealt only 2 damage. That would explain the rarity of people frequently surviving multiple gunshot wounds; if you take two shots from a 2d8 weapon, that's a 1/4,096 chance of taking 4 points of damage total from both shots. Since only a little over half of people are likely to have above-average hit points (4 or more, as the "average" hit die seems to be d6 in Modern, and that's an average of 3.5 hit points), and the odds of this kind of damage roll for two or more gunshots is so rare, I can understand things from that standpoint.

But it can be applied in a different way to PCs. In Modern, MDT represents the amount of damage you need to take for an attack to be "lethal" (in a sense other than normal vs. nonlethal damage, of course). Total hit points represent the amount of damage, both "lethal" and "flesh wound", that a character can take before being guaranteed to succumb to unconsciousness. MDT is similar to Star Wars VP/WP mechanic in that a critical hit hits you and BAM! you just may drop. The key difference is that in Modern, you get a saving throw. A good firearm damage roll will actually make low-level characters drop MORE often than in Star Wars, because it's an utterly all-or-nothing save. With a successful attack roll that deals enough damage, the target has an automatic 5% chance to fail their save. At higher levels, that means less chance of dropping a target.

So, high-level heroes get shot up quite a bit, to the point where they will take a very long time to recover. Whenever they get hit by an attack which reaches or exceeds their MDT, time for a saving throw. Same rules as for low-level characters; the high-level ones are just better equipped to survive "lethal" attacks.
(looks at his post with no belief that it contains anything of worth )