Does LARP freak anyone else out?

[Nathal]

Funny how a group of hard-core gamers would be so suspicious and critical of another set of gamers with different preferences in entertainment. Many find D&D players "freaky" and are quick to slap stereotypes on us, and yet some of us have the nerve to turn around and unabashedly do the same to LARPERs? How hypocritical!

That is not to say that our styles or preferences are necessarily compatible. I don't personally enjoy LARPs, and the last person who was a fan of the live-action stuff who sat in on my game exclaimed, "you mean I have to use dice?". That was the end of that player in my game, but more power to her if what she enjoys is amateur thespianism! It may be argued that what they are playing is no longer strictly a role-playing game, but who cares? Regardless of semantic debate, who are we to judge others pastimes?

Boggle!

 

[Ramien Meltides]

I admit, I think most LARPers are freaky. And yet, I do look at some LARPs and think "Wow, that looks like fun".

My feelings on the matter come directly from my own personal experience with LARPs and LARP-ers. Allow me to explain:

All the LARPing I've ever seen has been at conventions. The majority of the LARPing I've seen has been white-wolf in nature.

I'll try to organize my experiences by convention.

Project: A-Kon 4 (anime convention): Vampire LARPers took over the Fan Video room... turned all the available chairs in a circle, turned on all the lights, and basically made things uncomfortable for any folks who brought something they wanted to show on the Audio/Video equipment. During the art auction, a cloaked and masked figure, I think he was a vampire LARPer by the arm positions he was making, enters and proceeds to loom over the bidders. This person says nothing, eventually sits down and makes some more arm motions, then stands and leaves without bidding or buying anything. My experience: Negative.

Project: A-Kon 5 (anime convention): Vampire LARPers wander about... I encounter three of them that stand out. One, a man dressed in an outfit composed solely of business ties. He and his pals make so much noise outside a video room they are asked to be quiet and leave. Two, an overweight woman spilling out of her corset walks up to me and demands to know "Where is the Prince? Do you know where the Prince is? I have to find him." Not being a part of her LARP, not knowing the answer to her question, not enjoying the unwelcome chatter, and not particularly caring, I walk away. Three, an ashtray is overturned in front of a bay window during a sunny day. A piece of paper with labled "malkavian" is left among the mess.
My experience: Negative.

FalCon 4: (general sci-fi convention, slanted towards LARP) I actually participated in a Vampire LARP at a friend's insistence. He suggested I play a Nosferatu and I brought along a large black satin cloak I own as a prop to hide the Nosferatu disfigurement. When I create my character, the folks in charge warn me sternly against making a "Combat Twinkie" with an aptitude for combat. I listen to their advice and make a sneaky-sort. The players are seperated into various camps... my friend and I attend a meeting where the leader-person who steps up to the podium says "Take off that damn cloak, what are you, advertising?" My friend mentions we're playing Nosferatu and the speaker at the podium (apparently some kind of official in the vampire society) tells me "So? Take off the cloak." About an hour and a half later, I'm dead... someone tosses a satchel at my feet when I'm talking to someone, and a storyteller comes by to ask me to roll some dice. Poof, end one character. In the same encounter, another PC reveals he has powers from some Dark Age book and proceeds to rip everyone nearby to shreds with his combat abilities. It had it's moments, but overall I really felt like I wasted my time.
My experience: Very Negative.

Conglomeration 1: (gaming convention) I am playing a round of Warhammer 40,000 with one of the gaming room staff members. In the later half of our game the gaming room is invaded by about thirty vampire LARPers who proceed to begin their Clan meeting... which includes shutting off the lights (which shuts down our wargame) and insisting on silence from the non-LARPers while they conduct their meeting.
My experience: Very Negative.

Gen Con 2000 and 2001: The LARPs conducted here looked very interesting to me, especially the Star Wars LARP. I found the players and staff to be extremely friendly, helpful, and accomodating folks who were not part of their game. It made me want to join them some time perhaps, because, unlike the other LARPs I've seen, it looked like FUN.
My experience: Positive.

In general, I think most LARPers are probably normal people just like myself, with varied interests and attitudes. However, I don't really like the thought of LARPing at a convention... in my mind, you're either at the convention to experience the -convention-, or you're just there to LARP. It always seems to me (except at the Gen Cons!) that LARPers are interfering with normal con-goer's convention experience, and I don't like the thought of that. It would probably open my eyes a bit if I were to try out a LARP that was NOT taking place during a convention.

 

[dinsdale]

Do tell, please, I'm actually sort of fascinated by it all.

The two sides seem to have more or less demonized "that other side".

Ok.. you asked for it:

But before I start, I want to mention that I’ve played in chapters on both side of the dispute before and after the break. Even with the ugliness below, it is still a great game to play. In fact, 99% of the time the break is completely irrelevant and will only really come into play if you are trying to transfer your character between different chapters. In chapters outside of the NorthEastern US, I have seen little difference between the two groups and a lot more seems to depend on the people running the individual chapter, rather than which organization they belong to.

Disclaimer: Although I played in both versions of NERO, I was far more associated with the NERO Alliance people and know more of the story from their end. However, I had good experiences in both versions of the game and will try to keep this fairly neutral and put qualifiers on items that are in dispute. I should also note that I hold no position in either organization and do not claim to speak for either of them.


As you noted, there are two organizations:

NERO International – The original version of the game, founded in 1988 in Mass. They claim to be the only official NERO game. www.nerolarp.com

NERO Alliance – Originally the NERO Ashbury chapter of NERO International, they broke off and formed their own version of the game using the same name. www.nerohq.com

Key Players:

Ford Ivey: Original owner of NERO International: 1988-1998
Joe Valenti: Owner of NERO International 1998-present
Mike Ventrella: Owner of NERO Alliance and one of the original founders of NERO International

Background:

The NERO chapter contracts all contain the following statements, which will all become relevant below (I’ve never seen one, but I think that these two facts are not in dispute):

- NERO Chapters were given an exclusive radius of operation. With one exception, this was always 100 miles.
- NERO Chapters, with one exception, pay a licensing fee to the headquarters.
- If you wanted to move your chapter, you have to notify headquarters for approval, which would have veto power if there was a conflict.


History:

NERO Alliance has an extensive page on this at nerohq.com/break. The only thing I could find on the NERO International website is a nerolarp.com/faq and basically says that there is only one NERO.

1992 - Mike started the NERO Ashbury chapter of NERO International. The chapter was based in NY City and ran events in Conn. At the time, I believe this was one of only three chapters, the other two being the HQ in Mass and one in Atlanta (there were some other short-lived chapters, including a first Ashbury campaign, and I am not absolutely certain when they all started/died). Due to his status as a co-creator of the game, Mike initially had no contract and never paid royalties to International. Joe Valenti and much of the current International staff were among the players. Much of the initial staff and player base were people upset with the way the headquarters chapter was being run.

1996 – Mike and Ford signed a contract that gave Mike the non-revocable right to run NERO events and the first crack at buying NERO if Ford ever decided to sell. Mike and Ford had a bit of a rocky relationship by this time and Mike wanted this contract to protect himself as one of the original creators of the game before he would sign a formal chapter contract (100 mile radius but still without royalties) and give NERO the rights to a new rulebook that Mike wrote (believing that these actions could be construed as giving up his own claim to the game). To reference something more on-topic, I think Mike didn’t want to get Gygax’ed. It is also worth noting that Mike is also a lawyer (boo-hiss).

Late 1996 or Early 1997 - Mike notified NERO International and moved to a nice permanent site in upstate NY. Typically, NERO chapters rent time at campgrounds for the weekend and then dismantle everything between events. Permanent sites allow for more frequent events, customization of the site, and on-site storage… all big plusses.

Soon after, Joe bought a chapter in Mike’s old territory. Unknown to Mike and just about anyone else, this chapter was granted a much larger area including NY city and the metropolitan areas of Albany, Trenton, New Haven, Atlantic City. It also included a small strip of eastern Pennsylvania. As it turns out, parts of this area were also within Mike’s 100 mile exclusive zone, though Mike didn’t know about this until later. It should also be noted that by this time, Joe and Mike also had a rocky relationship.

1997 – Arrangements with Mike’s site in upstate NY fell through for unrelated reasons and Mike plans to move to the Poconos in Eastern Penn. Mike claims to have notified HQ in September and received no objection. Joe’s chapter announcements at the time claimed regions in NY/NJ/Conn and since Joe was running events in Mike’s old site (> 100 miles from the Poconos), Mike believed he was clear.

Nov.-Dec. 1997 – Joe informs Mike that he is located within Joe’s territory and tells him to move or agree to become a subsidiary chapter to his. Mike refuses. Soon after, there was a meeting between Joe’s and Mike’s staff where Mike believes a tentative settlement was worked out (pending International approval) allowing Mike to stay in his current spot, in exchange for giving up rights to most of southern PA. I do not know Joe’s side of this meeting.

Jan./Feb. 1998 – Ford sends a letter to Mike saying that Joe believed there was no agreement. Ford demands that Mike move or be prevented from using the NERO name. Mike made some offers to negotiate, which were turned down. Ford announces to all chapters that NERO Ashbury is in violation and effectively suspends their ability to interact with other chapters.

March 1998 – Having had no resolution to the dispute, and having been prevented from interacting with other chapters, Mike breaks away from the NERO International organization to form an independent chapter, and invites other chapters to join him.

July 1998 – Joe purchases NERO International from Ford and starts claiming Mike’s chapters are illegal. Joe and Ford claim that Mike’s breakaway invalidated the contract giving Mike first purchase rights. In fairness, Mike likely couldn’t have afforded to buy it, though he may have been able to put together a group of people who could.

1998 – Joe and Mike both discover that Ford never registered the NERO trademark, even though he had claimed he did. Both rush to do so. Joe claims NERO started the day of the first meeting. Mike claimed NERO started the day it was first used in commerce, the day of the first event. (Note: they were both referring to the same actions by the same group of people here). Joe is granted the trademark, based upon the earlier date. Due to financial reasons and the fact that he still had a contract stating he can run NERO whenever he wants, Mike does not challenge.

During much of 1998/1999, there was a lot of mudslinging going back and forth across a number of forums. Joe and staff made numerous statements saying that the Alliance was illegal and threatened action. Mike and staff made numerous statements that Ford violated their contract and that the Alliance had just as much of a right to exist as International given the contract Ford and Mike signed.

Both organizations went through a competitive, rapid expansion period where both tried to start up new franchises across the US and Canada.

Since then, things have pretty much quieted down and the groups mostly tend to ignore each other, which I think is for the best. The rules have been evolving on both sides and are incompatible right now.


So that’s it, in a rather long nutshell. If you are still awake, I’m happy to answer any questions I can about this.

 

[CaptainCalico]

RPers are quite freaky as well. Just have to find the right group.
So does anyone know what LARPS are going to be at Gen Con yet?

I don't know about this year, but last year there were over 30 LARPs to choose from at GenCon. (See here for a list http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=gencon/article/larp ) A great introduction would be one of the one-evening murder-mystery type LARPs run by folks like Warren Dimmock - I did one of those for my first LARP ever and I had a ball. Some offer the chance to contact the folks running the game and set your character up ahead of time, which I hope to do this year. Some of the other vents, especially the White Wolf ones (Mind's Eye Theater) actually run for the entire con, which is a bit ambitious for me. In between there were a range of genres and time frames. I hope the selection is as good this year. (Am I brave/foolish enough for live-action Paranoia? Probably not…….)

 

[Taloras]

Magic isn't real? Since when?

And no, I'm NOT kidding. =o)

Heres a statement i actually agree with here....



As for Dave, I would suggest you try out the SCA. There is a group in Lexington, KY, known as the Shire of Dragonsmark.
http://www.geocities.com/dragonsmarkweb/homeframe.htm

Hope that helps.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

At my schoool we've just opened a new DnD club.

We had to. There's already a DnD club, but it's LARP. The people in it are called "the Russians" at my school (I don't know if they're really Russian - certainly not all of them - and it's probably an unfair name) but I think a bunch of big guys (they're all big and male) hitting each other with fake swords is a bit intimidating.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

I used to know some people who did this, and they were perrfectly happy with it. I never got involved, but I'd probably give it a shot if the oppurtunity arose.

It would probably not be my first choice however, since I'm not much for moving about. I feel much better gaming when sitting in my chair around the table. Not to mention, it does seem a lot more like acting, and even though I prefer role-playing to roll-playing, I got my fill of acting long ago (parents forced me to be in a lot of community theater...).

But it doesn't freak me out, per se...

~S

 

[heirodule]

My thought on vampire LARP

If Vampire: the masquerade is supposed to be all about how vampires are HIDDEN and never allow the humans to know they exist, why can you always spot the vampire larpers when they are at a con? Shouldn't they dress like the rest of us?

 

[Assenpfeffer]

I've been playing tabletop for over 22 years. In 22 years I've known a lot of LARPers from events as diverse as Dagorhir, SCA and various Cam, OWBN and unaffiliated WoD LARPS. Some of these folks have been pretty good friends of mine. I'd seen LARPS in action, and helped to organize them as events director at two conventions. The bottom line is that I've seen and met a lot of players of both types of games, and played myself in both types.

There are people in any LARP who might be called "freaks," either because of a complete lack of social skills, poor personal hygene, or an inability to recognize that what they're doing is playing a game. I have not noticed that the percentage of LARP "freaks" is any higher than the percentage of tabletop "freaks." I suspect that anyone saying they haven't seen and met a large number of tabletop-playing losers is being disingenous or selectively recalling people they want to remember. This applies even to WoD LARPs. Individual games, of course, may vary - I've seen events where everyone was a well-adjusted, skillful player, and others which were wall-to-wall unwahsed weirdos. Same with tabletop.

While LARP is obviously different from tabletop, in many ways, I've personally been using accents, speaking in character, acting out my character's actions, gesturing grandly, standing and making grandiose pronoucements for years. It's called roleplaying. The only difference is that in LARP, you're standing up.

Frankly, tabletop players high-handedly dismissing all LARP players as weirdos and sociopaths strikes me as more than a little hypocritical. If it's any consolation, though, LARPers tend to think of tabletop gamers as glorified boardgamers who push chits around on a hexgrid and to whom roleplaying is something wholly alien.

 

[Ian Sturrock]

The foam weapons are meant to be hit with only enough to make you know you've been hit. Its my understand that European LARPs are made with harder weapons, and you hit harder.

I wouldn't enjoy that, much.

I believe it's true that European live-roleplay weapons are somewhat harder than US-style ones, although the idea is that you barely touch your opponent at all -- there is no encouragement to hit hard, and I find that the reverse is true. I've never known a serious injury (in my 20 years of experience playing and running live-combat LRP) caused by anything other than the usual outdoors stuff like people falling off hills or running into trees. Occasionally in a mass battle you get a person trampled underfoot due to the sheer number of people (up to 3000 in one field), but personally I avoid events that are so large as I don't think it's possible to keep them safe.

I've also recently taken up medieval re-enactment with full-weight steel weapons, and if anything there is even greater care taken with such to avoid injury -- though accidents are more common. This is one reason I went for the medieval period, I can wear full plate and know I'm pretty safe from anything. . .