Pathfinder 1E Does pathfinder strike anyone as too gamey?

[billd91]

I have to admit, this is a totally new one to me. Wizards are limited by encumbrance. What do you do in games where the wizard doesn't dump stat STR? A 12 Str, hardly a major point sink for a point buy character or a die rolled one, lets me carry 43 pounds. What am I possibly carrying where that's going to be an issue?

Depends on how prepared you want to be going in and how rich you want to be coming out.

I do see players with encumbrance issues and dumped strength going into adventures when they want to make sure they have a variety of contingencies covered in areas where a pack animal may not be easy to take (something that seems to have become more and more the case as 3e went on and brought us into 4e).

 

[brvheart]

I like point buy. I'm always amazed how few randomly rolled characters come in below average for whatever rolling method is used.

You guys haven't seen me roll have you! Someone has to get the low rolls to make the averages! If I average a 12 on 4d6 I am lucky.

And as for encumbrance, you need to start adding things up. Two weeks worth of rations is 14 lbs, most kits are around 25 lbs. Try making characters in HeroLab and really equip them and you will see how encumbered a lot of low strength characters are.

 

[gamerprinter]

Yeah, one of my players always rolls 3 sets of 18's for scores when rolling randomly - nobody in my group prefers point buy, except me as GM.

 

[dagger]

We have used 2d6+6 a few times and like it.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I really prefer random roll, but it inevitably causes problems because someone will roll awesome and someone else be unhappy. I can't win.

It also reminds me of the time (in a friend's campaign) one of the new players was sitting there "rolling" his stats, and I clearly saw him rolling over and over until he rolled an 18, then wrote that down and declared the dice "warmed up". I called B.S. - didn't want to play with him anyway.

 

[N'raac]

Which rolls back to the "dump stat" strength wizard. What the heck is your wizard carrying that it becomes an issue?

Even a medium load maxes out at 53 pounds for an 8 str. What is your wizard carrying? Staff? What for? Unless it's magical, it's just dead weight. If you are actually in melee combat, you're hosed anyway. Your spellbook is only 3 pounds. Scrolls don't weigh anything. Neither do wands.

How is encumbrance even slightly limiting my 8 str wizard? I've got 26 pounds before I have to start worrying and all the things I really need - spellbook, scrolls, wands, couple of daggers, heck, toss in a staff for giggles, weighs about 10 pounds.

So, again, I've got another 10 pounds worth of gear before I even start getting slowed down. What am I carrying? Food and stuff better be on my horse. Does no one bother with anything like a pack animal?

I have to admit, this is a totally new one to me. Wizards are limited by encumbrance. What do you do in games where the wizard doesn't dump stat STR? A 12 Str, hardly a major point sink for a point buy character or a die rolled one, lets me carry 43 pounds. What am I possibly carrying where that's going to be an issue?

A 12 STR isn't dumped. First off, I'm generally looking for a light load - 10' less movement can be costly. If all your food and water is on a pack animal, don't get separated from it. And they don't go everywhere.

A light source would be nice. How long do you get by with ONE spellbook (and how long does the guy who claims to have every spell in the book, and scrolls for most just in case, get by)? I don't find it hugely limiting, but getting down to dump stat levels typically means having little gear beyond the basics. I find some stuff goes in a sack to be dropped if I can't bring that mule along. Carrying devices eventually take care of much of the issue, but I don't rely on Rope Tricks where I can't access anything in them.

 

[Hussar]

I'm wondering if you're equally amazed by how many hit die rolls are above average. Or even how many attack rolls are above 10.

To me, this kind of inflation is kind of universal, for a variety of reasons.

Don't get me wrong, it is a good reason to use an allocation system rather than random rolls for ability scores.

Heh, different strokes. The nice thing about playing 100% in the open, is that you never, ever, get this kind of inflation in games.

IOW, how much of people's issues is due to "user error"?

 

[Ahnehnois]

Heh, different strokes. The nice thing about playing 100% in the open, is that you never, ever, get this kind of inflation in games.

Not necessarily. Even out in the open, there's still a lot of room for the sort of "it landed against the book" or "oh, that was my Dexterity check to tie my shoes, now let me roll the Knowledge check" kind of stuff, even more of which can happen on the DM side. It depends how forceful one wants to be about enforcing the sanctity of the die roll.

 

[Hussar]

Not necessarily. Even out in the open, there's still a lot of room for the sort of "it landed against the book" or "oh, that was my Dexterity check to tie my shoes, now let me roll the Knowledge check" kind of stuff, even more of which can happen on the DM side. It depends how forceful one wants to be about enforcing the sanctity of the die roll.

Heh, again, electronic tools to the rescue. This is never, ever an issue in an VTT game. There is no, "it landed against the book", because there's no books. And your die rolls are always tied to a stated action, because the macros say things like, "Farfargnewton rolls his Knowledge (Bacon Recipes) check: 27" .

Zero room for fudging. It's been so long since I've played with physical dice that I tend to forget all the ridiculous shenanigans that people tried to pull over the years. When I say I play 100% in the open, I'm not kidding. Heck, even when I used OpenRPG, my hidden rolls are still saved in the transcript and freely available for reference after the game.

Makes for a much better game IMO.

BTW, I'm not a Pathfinder player, but, how is the Pathfinder VTT coming along? I've heard good things about it.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Makes for a much better game IMO.

Well, I don't know about "better".

Sounds to me like a lot of the sports debates about instant replay and computer-assisted calls. There are a lot of traditionalists who would rather have a human being making the call, even at the expense of getting it objectively right.

And in the same vein, there are probably a lot of rpg-ers who care more about the outcome and don't care that much about the process used to get it.

Different? Yes. Better? More of an individual preference.