Does performing Trip attempts every round ruin Suspension of Disbelief?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Fight Quest is the best of them, IMO.

ANd I preferred Human Weapon, because it had more history information and they generally explored the culture at least a little each week, too. Fight Quest just seemed kinda like the "Fear Factor" of martial arts shows, where the main point of interest was seeing them endure the most brutal training regiments possible (like in the Karate episode when Doug blacked out after a kick to the head and they made him get up and fight several more people, even though he couldn't even defend himself). Some may like that, I found it distasteful.
Anyway, I was just curious if that show was a new one, or the poster meant one of these.

(Also, there was Deadly Arts before any of these, but I don't think many people know of that show).
/threadjack

May as well state the obvious: I don't see anything wrong with tripping every round. I've taken Capoeira, and between sweeps and takedowns, I learned about a dozen different maneuvers to lie someone flat, and I was just at beginner level. I'm sure if you mixed martial art styles, as is popular, you could develop quite a diverse repertoire of ways to make someone fall down.

 

[hong]

Nor to anyone I've ever gamed with, too.

They were just being polite, or you were just bad at tripping.

But it's only your opinion that's correct, so what's that really matter?

I don't know. It's only my opinion that's correct, so what DOES that really matter?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

However, I'd just like to turn it around for the purpose of this discussion. Is a fighter who, on every round of a combat, is able to Trip someone (with a high degree of success) just as worthy of breaking your Suspension of Disbelief?

The problem lies in the fact that the fighter cannot TRY to trip. Not that he can't trip someone. He can't even try. I have no problem with the fighter trying to trip all day long, but as you say, if he tripped his opponent 90% of the time, in every combat, yes, that's almost as bad as not even being able to try.

 

[hong]

The problem lies in the fact that the fighter cannot TRY to trip. Not that he can't trip someone. He can't even try. I have no problem with the fighter trying to trip all day long, but as you say, if he tripped his opponent 90% of the time, in every combat, yes, that's almost as bad as not even being able to try.

Sure he can try all the time. Against weak opposition, he may even succeed. But against really tough opposition, it'll only work a few times a day.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

(Flaming garbage)

Well, I'm done. Let me know if you ever come up with a better reason for a combat tactic proven to work repeatedly in the real world not working in a game with magic missiles than "it's annoying." If annoying things didn't exist, your posts wouldn't even be in this thread. I can only wish.

 

[Starfox]

Suspension of disbelief aside, a trip monkey who actually trips every round is boring. Which is worse.

No, a 3E fighter with Improved Trip doesn't trip every round - many opponents will be to large and strong to risk that tactic.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If Trip is getting monotonous, then find different ways to describe it.

I think he problem might be that it's mechanically boring and monotonous.
Yay, opponent drops again, another move action/Attack of Opportuntiy round later, he makes his single attack. Repeat.

It leads to a stationary combat - the opponent has no incentive to move - on the contrary, moving makes things worse, since he probably also loses his remaining attack (and provokes another attack of opportunity).
Tripping leads to a static combat. The reason why it's not a standard option is not because it would be broken, but because it kills the dynamic of combat.

Bullrush is a lot more interesting - you can move your opponents around and put them in dangerous situations. But in 3E, Tripping is simply better - you get feats that grant you extra attack, standing up provokes, and you suffer penalties while prone to your attacks and defenses. Best case for a bullrush (barring chasms, cliffs and lava streams) is using it to trip someone by shoving him against an obstacle, and second best case is to move him into a flanking position.

I guess that's why 4E has so many slide/pull/push effects - shoving your enemies around allows more variety, and leads to a dynamic battlefield.
And why Bullrush is still a standard combat option, but trip is not.

 

[AllisterH]

Hmm?

I think we're talking at cross purposes.

Since when did the Improved Trip feat schtick represtn different ways each time to take something down? Using the Improved Trip mechanic means that each time an individual character uses it, they are performing the same move to get the same result.

Now, if we're talking about the Setting Sun manoeuvers that result in trips, then yes, we have different moves that get the after-effect of being Tripped. Similar to how D&D 4E uses trip ("there are powers that will knock you prione, in effect, yuo are tripped).

Seriously, when did this idea that Improved Trip meant that each trip attempt was being performed differently?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Seriously, when did this idea that Improved Trip meant that each trip attempt was being performed differently?

I think it's the same idea that every single attack roll can be narrated with a different description. Even if in the end, you still use the same d20, the same attack bonus, and the same damage roll to get the game effect.


But what is absolutely impossible to do, obviously, is to narrate these maneuvers in a way that it alludes to tripping the enemy, even if just for such a short time that the game mechanics do not tell us that he's prone. Because there is a game mechanic for prone, and you can't be prone in the game world if you're not prone mechanically. It breaks the disbelief suspenders... Narrating combat has to be done with care, without treating on mechanically defined concepts.

 

[eyebeams]

I think he problem might be that it's mechanically boring and monotonous.
Yay, opponent drops again, another move action/Attack of Opportuntiy round later, he makes his single attack. Repeat.

That's fair. For 4e, my fix would probably be to have a basic Trip and a whole bunch of powers that knock people prone. Another solution would be to develop a whole bunch of power SFX you can stack with a power by spending something or by taking a voluntary penalty. In fact, that's not a bad idea at all . . .