Does Polymorph restrict size-changes?

[Iku Rex]

...You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype. ... That's what Polymorph inherits from Alter Self.

That's what I did in my "form argument", actually... I dropped *all* restrictions from Alter Self placed on the form ...

Which limitation was not dropped?

"You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype." (As quoted in the post you just replied to.)

 

[ThirdWizard]

So that's my suggested "reason for the wording of the spell".

I didn't think to cross-reference with my 3.0 book, which is an hours drive away anyway. I think that is very probable.

 

[Thanee]

Well, two people might read it differently...

Well, I totally agree, that it would be better, if the rules were written with more care, no ambiguity or vagueness, clear definitions of terms and explicit statements.

But that is dreamland, we only got the PHB.

Bye
Thanee

 

[ThirdWizard]

You would think by now WotC would be experts at writing Polymorph spells!

 

[mikebr99]

FYI...

Use this rule even in unusual cases. For example, a human uses a polymorph effect to assume the form of some Colossal creature with the swallow whole special attack and then proceeds to swallow several foes of Large size. When the human reverts to normal (Medium) size, the human can no longer hold the Large foes inside. As the human reverts to normal size, just assume the Large foes are ejected from the human's changing body.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050510a

It seems to me, that WoTC agrees with Thanee.
I do also...


Mike

 

[ThirdWizard]

I purposefully avoid the RotG and the FAQ. Heh, my House Rules document outright says that neither of those sources have any credibility with me.

 

[Thanee]

"You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype."

Right, I only refered to the initial statement in the spell description.

Okay, there are basically two options...

Polymorph allows you to use templates, as long as the other restrictions are not violated, especially type, this is unlikely tho, for obvious reasons, or the template-restriction is seperate from the general description of "form" (as I used it above, HD, size, type), as it's not on the same level, since it is something you have to add to a base creature, while the "definition of form" as I stated it, defines the base creature, and you only change into a typical creatures of the chosen type; or another way to look at it, since it is not one of the restrictions, which are restated in the Polymorph description, it is not one, of those lifted.

But that in no way invalidates my interpretation, as you claim all the time.

It just further complicates the matter.

(As quoted in the post you just replied to.)

Oops, yeah, I didn't read the above part of the quote, since I thought it was also from the post you quoted, not from another one. If you had seperated that from the other quote, I wouldn't have missed it. My fault, anyways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

You would think by now WotC would be experts at writing Polymorph spells!

LOL

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I purposefully avoid the RotG and the FAQ.

While sometimes they look a bit more like an errata than a clarification, they really are quite reasonable in most cases and certainly very helpful.

And they *are* official additions to the rules!

I totally agree, BTW, that this is not the best way to handle it, but it's how things are.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

It seems to me, that WoTC agrees with Thanee.

I do also...

They are even more explicit:

The assumed form's size can be anything from Fine to Colossal.

Bye
Thanee