Does quickdraw also make sheathing a weapon a free action?

[Hypersmurf]

Yep, iajitsu is tied to being flatfooted. That's what makes Flick of th Wrist such a useful feat for Iajitsu masters. I think there are a couple of other feats that make the foe flat-footed.

It's when the Iaijutsu Master talks you into having a fight on a narrow rope bridge that you're in trouble.

In 3.5 you're flat-footed while balancing...

-Hyp.

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

I think it all depends on how many free actions your dm allows, in some campaigns it could lead to some real problems I am sure, but in others it wouldn't be a real issue. The one place I can think of it coming is if you have a throwing master using a short sword with a +6/+1 BAB, he could hit with the short sword, killing one monster, then sheath as a free action and pull two daggers (two free actions) to flick at the montser coming at him, then draw his short sword again (free action). Depending on the circumstance, that could be a problem. Ymmv depending on gm. I know some GM restrict free actions heavily (I am one of them, so the previous thing would never come into it with me, I tend to allow 2-3 free actions *AT most* per round, which would let the master throw the daggers, but he would still be unarmed next round.)

 

[apsuman]

I'm tired of people saying "...I would allow X because quick draw is so limited/useless/unused of a feat..."

Not all feats are supposed to be great, or even good.

Heck a lot of them are optimized for really *odd* characters.

Quick draw shines for the pole arm fighter that smacks his opponents at reach. Either they fight him on his terms at 10 feet away, or they close and he gets an AOO, drop the pole arm and quick draw the (fill in the blank) and waylay them some more.

Quick draw works for a dagger throwing halfling paladin on a mount. Combining, the +1 from DEX, the +1 from being a halfling for thrown weapons, the mount for speed and to stay way from the BBEG, and +1 from Precise shot, and you have a really good use of quick draw.

Problem is that nobody plays a pole arm fighter as a PC, or any other character combo that could really get some milage out of quick draw so everyone says "it blows chunks" and beefs it up. Just like the guy that was concerned about his fourth level wizard with no con bonus only having 12 hit points, nobody seems to buy into the concept that there are costs associated with making choices, like selecting quick draw.

/rant

I apologize if I went on too long.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

I'm tired of people saying "...I would allow X because quick draw is so limited/useless/unused of a feat..."

Not all feats are supposed to be great, or even good.

Another way you might want to try looking at it is that some people may want to see a feat like Quick Draw in their game, but for reasons like the ones you mentioned (no one's playing a member of the dagger-throwing halfling cavalry, no one's playing a polearm guy), it's just not getting used. So they find an incentive that might make the feat slightly more interesting within the context of their own game. (And as an aside, I still don't see being able to put a weapon away as quickly as you drew it to be a huge, massive, beefed-up incentive in most games. Unless I was paid to uphold the letter of the rules or I really, really loved saying "NO!", I can't think why I wouldn't let a PC do that.)

Sure, not all the feats are optimized. Some are ridiculously specialized (and in some campaigns may be overspecialized). Some are weird. Some may even, in some kinds of games with some kinds of people, blow chunks. In other cases, a feat may seem to be too good, too much better than all the alternatives, or just a real pain in the butt to deal with.

When it turns out that a PC has taken a feat and the players or the GM aren't happy with how it's working out in actual play, there's nothing wrong with a little creative tweaking to see if happiness can be restored. Hence, "Can I use quick draw to put my sword back and take out my bow as a free action?" And the answer to that question, I think, is best addressed on a campaign-by-campaign basis.

It'd be different if the cost of a particular feat or attribute or whatever were some kind of purely objective standard. Unfortunately, gaming is in the hands of a bunch of different people, and they're not all playing their campaign the same way. Filing down the rough spots so the game fits your group better's just fine, as far as I'm concerned.

--
oh, i am the very soul of tolerance and generosity

 

[Hypersmurf]

When it turns out that a PC has taken a feat and the players or the GM aren't happy with how it's working out in actual play, there's nothing wrong with a little creative tweaking to see if happiness can be restored. Hence, "Can I use quick draw to put my sword back and take out my bow as a free action?"

Heh.

I'm playing an archer with Quick Draw, so I'm frequently dropping my bow to quickdraw my sword, or taking a move action to sheathe my sword and quickdrawing my bow...

It didn't even occur to me to ask the DM that question, since I know that's not how the feat works...

-Hyp.

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

I'm tired of people saying "...I would allow X because quick draw is so limited/useless/unused of a feat..."

Not all feats are supposed to be great, or even good.

Heck a lot of them are optimized for really *odd* characters.

Quick draw shines for the pole arm fighter that smacks his opponents at reach. Either they fight him on his terms at 10 feet away, or they close and he gets an AOO, drop the pole arm and quick draw the (fill in the blank) and waylay them some more.

Quick draw works for a dagger throwing halfling paladin on a mount. Combining, the +1 from DEX, the +1 from being a halfling for thrown weapons, the mount for speed and to stay way from the BBEG, and +1 from Precise shot, and you have a really good use of quick draw.

Problem is that nobody plays a pole arm fighter as a PC, or any other character combo that could really get some milage out of quick draw so everyone says "it blows chunks" and beefs it up. Just like the guy that was concerned about his fourth level wizard with no con bonus only having 12 hit points, nobody seems to buy into the concept that there are costs associated with making choices, like selecting quick draw.

/rant

I apologize if I went on too long.

Actually I have played polearm fighters three times in 3e. I have never decried quick draw as useless. If you take the idea that it was created for normal use, yes it is useless if you can move more than 10 feet and draw a weapon but as I pointed out, it can be extremely deadly in some concepts. Every rogue I have ever had took quick draw. I have used that and bluff a number of times to surprise a person and get massive sneak attack damage at higher levels. My halfling rogue jumped up on the table of a npc and bluffed his way along to making her think he was an idiot, till he quickdrew his dagger and did 1d4+5d6+2d6+4 damage to her (and critted). There went one of the bbeg of the game.

Even dodge can be a handy feat (mainly in what it opens up later).

So just for the record, I do not think quick draw is useless, just not nec useful for most character types and there's a difference.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

The only problem I see with a "Quick Sheath" ability on quick draw (besides the obvious paradox) is that drawing a weapon quickly is a impressive skill, but putting that weapon back away with the same speed... whoa...

Look at your samurai movies everyone. Those Iajitsu masters can draw their sword in milliseconds, but all of them do the ceremonial sheathing of the weapon. It's not just because it's ceremonial though. I'd say that even the most dexterous of swordsmasters isn't too keen on having a katana through the leg or side as he tried to show off and throw his weapon back into its sheath.

I'd be in support of a sheathing FEAT, but it would be almost totally useless but for the polearm fighter who wants to draw and sheath his 5' melee weapon quickly each time he's approached...

Peace...

 

[Kaleon Moonshae]

The only problem I see with a "Quick Sheath" ability on quick draw (besides the obvious paradox) is that drawing a weapon quickly is a impressive skill, but putting that weapon back away with the same speed... whoa...

Look at your samurai movies everyone. Those Iajitsu masters can draw their sword in milliseconds, but all of them do the ceremonial sheathing of the weapon. It's not just because it's ceremonial though. I'd say that even the most dexterous of swordsmasters isn't too keen on having a katana through the leg or side as he tried to show off and throw his weapon back into its sheath.

I'd be in support of a sheathing FEAT, but it would be almost totally useless but for the polearm fighter who wants to draw and sheath his 5' melee weapon quickly each time he's approached...

Peace...

Although I do see another example, not an issue in most fantasy games, but becoming a lot more common with iron kingdoms and such. A gunfighter is known for fast drawning and returning in times of stress. Some fo the greatest gunfighters were said to be able to draw, shoot and reholster before you realized what exactly had just happened. I do agree aboutt he samurai sword, though, not teribly smart to try and sheath a weapon such as a sword fast. Throw an axe over your back and be ready? possibly, we are talking bout 6 seconds here. I can see it working for some weapons and not for others, hence it should be a situation specific use.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

It didn't even occur to me to ask the DM that question, since I know that's not how the feat works...

And now you see why they say there are no stupid questions.

--
or was that 'ignorance is bliss'?

 

[Sejs]

I do agree aboutt he samurai sword, though, not teribly smart to try and sheath a weapon such as a sword fast.

I keep getting the mental image of the character from the Samurai Showdown series of games, Ukyo Tachibana. Bit of a pretty boy, but very slick. Part of his flair is that any attack in which he draws his sword, he'll resheath it in the same attack motion: draw-strike-sheath. For some of his combos or special moves, he'll have it out for seveal attacks, but once they're done, *snikt* it's back away in its place. All just part of his fighting style.


Then there's Manji from Blade of the Immortal, but that's another story entirely, heh.