D&D 5E Does RAW have a place in 5e?

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
RAW is the baseline for establishing trust in the game at both sides of the table (player or DM).

Shouldn't "My friends are not jerks" or "This guy is willing to devote the time it takes to run a game tonight for our entertainment, so I will start with the assumption he plans on making it fun" be the baseline for establishing trust? I've never needed rules for trust - trust is a human thing.
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
It's worth mentioning that the dawn of 3E was just a titch prior to the spread of internet forums; the only real D&D community online that I remember from that period was the Usenet newsgroup rec.games.frp.dnd. The growth of internet fora played a big part in shaping what the 3E (and 4E) experience would become. When players could go online and browse for "Ultimate XXXploitz", the problems with RAW started to show themselves even more than they would have in the old days.

You're on a forum founded before 3e came out, created to discuss the upcoming 3e releases. It's really weird to me to hear these sorts of sentiments - internet forums were already HUGE before 3e came out. Heck, My friend had founded ComicBookResources in 1996, which is really the year message boards were taking off. By 2000, if you were a nerd and didn't know about message boards, you were a late adopter.
 

Dalamar

Adventurer
The problem with RaI is that we often don't actually have the I for it. Sure, we can make guesses, but wouldn't that be easier if the rules were written in a way that would've satisfied the RaW crowd anyway...?
 


Warskull

First Post
I have always been of the opinion that no one is better qualified to determined the shape of the rules than the people actually playing. Rulebooks are great for providing basic structure but not as well suited at being an ultimate authority for everyone who plays the game. The spirit of the rules have always been more important than the letter IMHO and flexibility is the best way to ensure that the letter of the rules remains in tune with the spirit and feel a particular group is looking for.

I disagree here. This is one of those things that sounds great when you say it and a ton of people will chime in and agree with you. However, in practice is had problems.

Strong RAW give you a foundation for your game. Playing RAI means things are murky. It can lead to inconsistent calls, you are guessing at what the writers intended, and the biggest problem it is often leads to on the spot calls.

On the spot calls are really bad. Your options are to delay the whole game while you read through the book and try to figure out what was intended or to make a haphazard call that you can later find out is a huge mistake. Ideally the people writing the rules have more experience with the system than you and there is a reason certain things are set-up certain ways. Later on your off the cuff ruling could combine with other off the cuff rulings and lead to something absurd which you now have to make up another rule on the spot "that is not allowed." It takes too much time to consider all the consequences of a ruling to do so properly during a game.

People also get emotional with RAI. I rarely see people striving for the real RAI. More often that are pushing for the "Rules as I want them to be" or the "Rules as I think they should be." RAW is a more emotionless interpretation, it just needs strong rules to work well. If a rule is written vaguely you are forced to interpret and that interpretation can go wrong. Meanwhile with clearly defined rules you are a clear correct interpretation, even if it is stupid. Using strong RAW if it says you can wear pants on your head for +1 AC, you can wear pants on your head for +1 AC. You just admit that rule is dumb and move on.

That's why I am a fan of strong, well written, and thought out RAW. You can then house rule or do whatever if you want your game to be different. The solid foundation from the RAW will making the game with your house rules better.

The big problem with solid RAW is that they are very hard to do correctly. It really does take iterating, you have small team writing the rules and a huge player base beating on the rules attempting to break them. The larger population will always win. Just look at video games as an example. All the great multiplayer games have gone through multiple iterations. No one gets Starcraft or Street Fighter right on the first attempt. The only games that don't need balance patches are single player games where you don't care about the flaws in balance and design that get found. This is a problem for D&D because iterating to keep up with player innovation is very difficult.
 
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Sadrik

First Post
So long as it is RAI and codified by the DM. I love rules interpretations and new ways of doing things but these are house rules, RAI is a little different.

I like to know up front if I make a character with a feat that it will do what it says. Not what the DM thinks it says, (or vice versus on that logic). There is a bit of rug getting pulled out from under you if a DM uses the intent of the designer to make rulings. You wanted to have light thrown weapons be used with power throw feat. You believe because it does not explicitly say that light weapons cannot be used that you should be able to power throw a dagger. The DM believes that Power Throw is like Power Attack and light weapons cannot be used because you have to have power attack to get power throw and this is what the designers intended. Stuff like that will come up and the player has to either say whatever, I can't use the feat with my daggers or ask to change the character's feat or whatever.
 

SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
You're on a forum founded before 3e came out, created to discuss the upcoming 3e releases. It's really weird to me to hear these sorts of sentiments - internet forums were already HUGE before 3e came out. Heck, My friend had founded ComicBookResources in 1996, which is really the year message boards were taking off. By 2000, if you were a nerd and didn't know about message boards, you were a late adopter.
Yeah, I dont understand how people can keep saying that when posting here.

Maybe our perspective is broader due to having experienced it. So they were unaware.

Friendly education and spreading the word would seem to be key here.
 

A

amerigoV

Guest
I admit I have only done a one time through of Basic before going back to my game of choice, so I have not played it/GMed it/etc. So maybe there are some glaring gaps in the rules beyond just common sense adjudication that needs addressing (nothing really jumped out on that read and I liked what I read).

But one thought to add: are the rules unclear, or are people just not used to having less detail spelled out? I mean, under 3.x Listen Checks were modified by distance (+1 DC per 10'), behind a closed door (+5 DC), wind speed, if it was raining (-4 to listen), and if you were taking a piss or a dump (ye old p/d modifier), etc. Maybe that level of specificity reduced the number arguments, but it certainly did not save any time. At least with a rules argument there is something interesting to talk about vs. watching the GM count up squares.
 

Playing with RAW sometimes creates problems, but RAI can be even more problematic, in my opinion. My own solution is to adopt a "what interpretation creates the game we want to play?" approach, and go with it. As long as you have the whole group in the same mood, that works pretty well.
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
The problem with RaI is that we often don't actually have the I for it. Sure, we can make guesses, but wouldn't that be easier if the rules were written in a way that would've satisfied the RaW crowd anyway...?

I wouldn't think so. RAW comes in with his evil twin, RFE (Rule For Everything.) And they always come together. Just to be sure you have RAW for anything, you need RFE. Of course, Everything is a rather large thing to try to have rules for. You soon realize, or most people do, that you can't actually have RFE (and hence RAW) unless you take the board game route and severely limit the scope of what the mechanics cover. Alternatively, you can take a "false RFE" route and make some very general rules that supposedly cover all situations. I call those false because they generally just make the interpretation an explicit part of play, often by using free descriptors of some sort.. Which isn't bad by any means! Its what let's a game like Fate cover almost any genre in one go.

I think that, by their vary nature, TTRPGS, will always require some interpretation. So its far better to use that as a strength rather than treat it as a weakness. If people are unclear about the I part of RAI, then there needs to be more flavor text and whatnot.

At least, that's how I see it today. :)
 

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