D&D 5E Does the "Friends" cantrip need a fix?

[transtemporal]

I think this is a badly designed cantrip. Its extremely situational as written and the drawback is significant enough that no one would pick it up over another cantrip. They should've just made it a 'Guidance' type cantrip but for charisma checks.

 

[Leatherhead]

Friends is really bad. Just compare it to True Strike or Guidance.

 

[Moorcrys]

Sorry, but they shot you when you started casting.

Well not to nitpick but Obi Wan •did• use a somatic component, kind of at least, with his little hand wavy thing that he does so mysteriously while he does his mind trick - Qui Gon in Episode 1 does the same somatic component with the blue flying dude and gets called out on it if I recall.

But I agree about the components. I'd at least drop the material component no doubt for the spell.

 

[Psikerlord#]

TLDR version:

Do any or all of the following -
1) Extend the duration to 10 minutes
2) Explicitly make the casting subtle, woven into your speech
3) Make the target suspicious of the entire interaction and realize he's been magically meddled with afterwards, but not innately hostile.

I allow subtle casting with a sleight of hand check, or a stealth check, or similar, if the circumstances permit (target is distracted)

 

[keterys]

I allow subtle casting with a sleight of hand check, or a stealth check, or similar, if the circumstances permit (target is distracted)

I was trying to do the enchantment route (Friends, Suggestion) until I found out that would never fly at the tables I ended up with.

So, yay for your table

 

[zicar]

I think its best use is for interrogation; the subject is likely already hostile towards you.

 

[tuxgeo]

. . . What I would change--not for balance reasons, but for Rule of Cool--is the material component. Putting on makeup while pulling the Jedi mind trick is... well, dumb.

"Spellcasting Focus" obviates that.

 

[keterys]

I think its best use is for interrogation; the subject is likely already hostile towards you.

Know what works even better?

An ally who just Helps you. Gives you advantage, with no other requirement. Good cop, Bad cop, doesn't even matter.

 

[I'm A Banana]

My nickname for this is "conversation bomb."

My favorite use of the spell is to use disguise self to make yourself appear like someone you want to have killed before casting it, thus causing the target to become hostile to who they thought you were.

This hostile drawback is harsh, though maybe not TOO harsh for its intended use. If they wanted to see more "these aren't the droids you're looking for" use, I'd have a different drawback.

 

[iserith]

Friends gives advantage on all Charisma checks towards a creature for 1 minute. Advantage is pretty good. But I have two problems with the spell.

1. I'm aware the spell is only a cantrip and must have a limitation of some sort to prevent using it on every Charisma check. But I think that turning the target hostile is pretty harsh. This way I wouldn't even use it on some merchant.

My suggestion would be that the target creature turns hostile for 2d6 days and the next Charisma against the creature even after that period is with disadvantage.

2. My second problem with the spell is the short duration. Actually I can't imagine a lot of useful situations for the spell. My first idea for the spell was to cast it while haggling with a merchant. But with such a short duration the merchant would turn hostile until he has fetched the item.

My suggestion would be to extend the duration to 1 hour but limit advantage to only one check during the spell's duration.

What do you think?

I think the spell is fine as is.

A hostile creature opposes the caster and his or her goals but doesn't necessarily attack the caster on sight. So you'll need to choose your targets carefully or make sure they are unaware of you or your goals. That's easy enough.

Further, it's particularly useful if you believe your action to deceive, intimidate, perform for, or persuade a non-hostile creature has an uncertain outcome (and it's important enough an action to incur the NPCs hostility later) or if your DM asks for a lot of ability checks.