Does this bug anyone else?
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Dagger75
Epic Commoner
If it bugs you enough to post about it I guess you should talk to your friends. If you don't want them to bring them at to your game and they refuse well you know what kind of friends they are.
Also for all the people who say it alright to pirate this and that. Can I come over to your house an siphon out a gallon af gas from your car, I want to test the brand, see if I like how my car runs with the gas, Its only a gallon you got 9 more, I'm not hurting anybody and only the oil companies are getting rich. Is that alright guys?
Also for all the people who say it alright to pirate this and that. Can I come over to your house an siphon out a gallon af gas from your car, I want to test the brand, see if I like how my car runs with the gas, Its only a gallon you got 9 more, I'm not hurting anybody and only the oil companies are getting rich. Is that alright guys?
DM_Matt
First Post
Dagger75 said:
Also for all the people who say it alright to pirate this and that. Can I come over to your house an siphon out a gallon af gas from your car, I want to test the brand, see if I like how my car runs with the gas, Its only a gallon you got 9 more, I'm not hurting anybody and only the oil companies are getting rich. Is that alright guys?
That analogy is incorrect. Digital products are replicated without removal, and abstract ownership of information is different (as are the laws about it) than with physical objects, leta lone consumables.
The closest thing to an anlogy that works is magically conjuring (so that there are no real materials costs, just some time spent) a particular company's specific patented form of gasoline and trying it out. Its hard to say anytihng about such an analogy, becuase the actual events occuring are absurd.
the Jester
Legend
I'll download things if I can't get them in my area- which hasn't actually happened yet- if I'm going to buy it anyway and I want to use it now, or if it's not worth paying for. And please note, I spend a lot of my money on gaming stuff.
I worked at a Kinkos and I photocopied (in b/w) most of Monsters of Faerun. It had enough stuff that I just wasn't interested in that I couldn't justify paying the price for it. I had to pay to do it and it cost me about half the price to get most of the stuff I could use.
In general, I'm willing to buy the stuff that will get use in my campaign. I need to be able to carry it around with me.
I worked at a Kinkos and I photocopied (in b/w) most of Monsters of Faerun. It had enough stuff that I just wasn't interested in that I couldn't justify paying the price for it. I had to pay to do it and it cost me about half the price to get most of the stuff I could use.
In general, I'm willing to buy the stuff that will get use in my campaign. I need to be able to carry it around with me.
Dagger75
Epic Commoner
This horse has been beaten death so much the Harm horse looks to be in better shape. My New Years resolution is to not get into any more piracy discussions. I, me, myself think it is wrong, I hope that those who do it know its wrong. I know speeding is wrong, I still drive to fast I guess for know this falls into this catagory. Maybe when there are real consequensces it will stop but for now, I guess we will see.
You guys can flame, say what ever you want after this, I will not be reading or replying anything on this subject just so you all know.
You guys can flame, say what ever you want after this, I will not be reading or replying anything on this subject just so you all know.
Henry
Autoexreginated
First of all, I will start by disclaiming I do not support piracy. And as anyone knows, if someone posts any kind of pirate link or anything else flagrant like that, it gets deleted. But of course, you all knew that. 
Now...
I do not intend to stand and ponitficate and talk about illegality, etc. What gives me the most grief is the "I'm not hurting anyone" philosophy.
The hardest thing for people to find fault with electronic piracy is that they are not PHYSICALLY stealing money from someone. It's like insider trading; you aren't doing anything but getting the news before it affects the market, so you don't PHYSICALLY see the morality issues caused by its use. You aren't physically taking candy from that baby; you are instead causing damage that isn't tangible, and therefore it looks as if no harm has been caused - until the people producing said work are gone to greener pastures.
The Dragon "Dork Tower" strip is perfect in demonstrating this; it's all too easy to miss the companies who literally live hand to mouth with their product, or those who do it as a hobby so long as it pays for itself. Take even the slightest cent in profits from them, and it's one more nail to hold the "closed for business" sign in place.
Take Monte Cook, for example, or Bruce or Skip. These are genuinely nice guys - i've spoken with two of them at 'cons before, I've talked with Monte online numerous times, and all three of them are gamers, just like me. They got bills to pay, just like me. They produce products they spent time playtesting, editing, correcting - just so I could have something that no company like WotC would ever touch, because WotC could make no money from it.
Suppose I turn around and freely distribute that which they make their livelihood from. NOT a competing product, but the actual product that they wrote, edited and prepared. I turn around and give it away as much as possible. What does that say about my opinion of them? What does it say about my worth as a human being?
Answer: not damned much.
Now...
I do not intend to stand and ponitficate and talk about illegality, etc. What gives me the most grief is the "I'm not hurting anyone" philosophy.
The hardest thing for people to find fault with electronic piracy is that they are not PHYSICALLY stealing money from someone. It's like insider trading; you aren't doing anything but getting the news before it affects the market, so you don't PHYSICALLY see the morality issues caused by its use. You aren't physically taking candy from that baby; you are instead causing damage that isn't tangible, and therefore it looks as if no harm has been caused - until the people producing said work are gone to greener pastures.
The Dragon "Dork Tower" strip is perfect in demonstrating this; it's all too easy to miss the companies who literally live hand to mouth with their product, or those who do it as a hobby so long as it pays for itself. Take even the slightest cent in profits from them, and it's one more nail to hold the "closed for business" sign in place.
Take Monte Cook, for example, or Bruce or Skip. These are genuinely nice guys - i've spoken with two of them at 'cons before, I've talked with Monte online numerous times, and all three of them are gamers, just like me. They got bills to pay, just like me. They produce products they spent time playtesting, editing, correcting - just so I could have something that no company like WotC would ever touch, because WotC could make no money from it.
Suppose I turn around and freely distribute that which they make their livelihood from. NOT a competing product, but the actual product that they wrote, edited and prepared. I turn around and give it away as much as possible. What does that say about my opinion of them? What does it say about my worth as a human being?
Answer: not damned much.
Dagger75 said:
I completely agree. It's theft any way you look at it. Why not just take the book out of the store, peruse it at your leisure, decide if you want to buy it and then just photocopy the pages you want? Isn't that the same thing?
critic: No Shadeus, you dolt! Now some law-abidding customer couldn't actually buy that book. There's a loss of materials there that doesn't take place when you download the file!
I don't believe half of you that say you actually delete the files after you are done with them (if you are wondering, I believe you...just not the others). These excuses are the worst. I need the product now? Is Wizards or a d20 publisher supposed to ship their books to End of the Earth, Iowa where you live the very day it is released? Of course not! And if its not, blame your FLGS, not the publisher.
Yes, I know this is a morale high horse I'm climbing on. And who am I to tell you how to play your dnd games or how to live your life! Truth is, I can't. But I am least can express my point of view downloading copywrited material for free is a crime and shouldn't be proliferated.
I just refuse any such copies or files emailed to me.
Mathew_Freeman
Adventurer
I'm with Henry on this one.
Clefton Twain
First Post
Wow...that is totally lame and a cop-out. In my opinion there is totally no good reason to pirate all of that. Honestly, that's disgusting.
Yes, I've used Napster/Kazaa/whatever. I have downloaded a few random songs to listen to, some of which have resulted in me actually buying the album. I have never, however, downloaded an entire album...nowhere close to it.
And I have downloaded a couple of D&D pdf's, too. I happen to already own them, having legally purchased them in the store. So I'm not saying that file-sharing is all bad. I'm saying that those who see it as a way to get everything they want for free are bad. It's exactly the same as seeing a car on the street that you like so you just take it.
I would feel very uneasy about the entire group using all of this pirated stuff. I feel that quality products deserve my money. Shoddy products don't so I return them and am very careful about future purchases.
I'm not even really against downloading the product to take a look at it. If you don't see it as useful, fine. You probably weren't going to buy it anyway. But if it's something you use all the time--something you feel you need to bring to the game--then you should buy it. If you want something and don't have the money, save it up until you do. You don't just go taking things because you think you should have them.
Sorry, that was preachy. But people who just download everything willy-nilly because they think they have a right to own it really irritate me.
--CT
Yes, I've used Napster/Kazaa/whatever. I have downloaded a few random songs to listen to, some of which have resulted in me actually buying the album. I have never, however, downloaded an entire album...nowhere close to it.
And I have downloaded a couple of D&D pdf's, too. I happen to already own them, having legally purchased them in the store. So I'm not saying that file-sharing is all bad. I'm saying that those who see it as a way to get everything they want for free are bad. It's exactly the same as seeing a car on the street that you like so you just take it.
I would feel very uneasy about the entire group using all of this pirated stuff. I feel that quality products deserve my money. Shoddy products don't so I return them and am very careful about future purchases.
I'm not even really against downloading the product to take a look at it. If you don't see it as useful, fine. You probably weren't going to buy it anyway. But if it's something you use all the time--something you feel you need to bring to the game--then you should buy it. If you want something and don't have the money, save it up until you do. You don't just go taking things because you think you should have them.
Sorry, that was preachy. But people who just download everything willy-nilly because they think they have a right to own it really irritate me.
--CT
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