Does this fairly eliminate Attacks of Opportunity?

[GMMichael]

[MENTION=83293]nnms[/MENTION]: limiting the ability to defend seems to take a game like D&D very much in a Game of Thrones direction. Characters will be more likely to choose their battles if they don't have a certain percent chance that they can avoid all damage from any given attack.

Regarding feats, in Modos, which currently starts low-level characters off at 3 actions per round, a PC can take a perk which grants a free Parry reserve action (i.e. a free chance to defend).
[MENTION=40857]Meatboy[/MENTION]: given a set amount of time, 6 seconds or 1 minute, I could see a character having a chance to dodge a high number of, say, lightning bolts. Although it's not fun to do mechanically, I would imagine that as the number of dodges in a round increases, the difficulty of each successive dodge (or even all of the dodges) would increase. That, or what you attempt to do during your round would be a lot harder if you're busy dodging spells and swords throughout the round.

So our choices are:
1) Limit the number of defenses in a round.
2) Unlimit the number of defenses in a round.
3) Increase the difficulty of further defenses in a round.

(Don't worry Meatboy, if you have 10 LBs coming at you, you'll probably have a good amount of shock-resistance as well.)

 

[Meatboy]

[MENTION=6685730]DMMike[/MENTION]
I'd say save any DMs that play the hassle and unlimit defenses. Sure a PC only has to track 3 actions but if the DM runs encounters with lots of enemies, especially if the number of actions increase over the levels. That could make keeping track of who did what or has how many actions a big pain.

(thanks! I like to play warrior types and their are usually not too dodgy.)

 

[nnms]

What about a classic outnumbering bonus? Where each attack that you don't actively defend has an additional +1 to hit (or whatever bonus or save penalty makes sense given the underlying system). So that last lightning bolt after you've actively dodged three is going to be at +7 to hit (or -7 to your save, if that's how it works).

There's probably a simpler way of doing it, but the basic idea is an attack bonus or save penalty for having more attacks coming in than can possibly be dodged or avoided in a few seconds.

 

[GMMichael]

[MENTION=40857]Meatboy[/MENTION]: I'm pretty sure that unlimited defenses are incompatible with the 3-action-round idea. So that option is a matter of taste: 3 actions plus action counting, or unlimited defenses plus special action types? I just ran a session of action counting today: it's not so bad because you keep track of actions in the same way you track an enemy's initiative and/or hit points.
[MENTION=83293]nnms[/MENTION]: That makes sense, but it seems like it would just slow down gameplay beyond its value. You might use that idea as a special, situational rule for when the PCs wade into all-out war, and actually get outnumbered 2-1 or more.

I've had these ideas for perk/feats involving a 3-action system:
Dodge: gain a free Parry reserve action
Spell Maintenance: gain a free Mental action to maintain a previously cast spell
Rapid Reload: gain a free Physical action for reloading missile weapons.

 

[nnms]

If you don't mind, I'm thinking I'm going to go with a similar approach I'm working on a miniature game/RPG hybrid and having an action point system where you can act in different ways and even react during the enemy turn is a good way to go. It worked for the original two X-Com games, and I think a more simplified version where 1 point = 1 action is even better-- like the miniature game Malifaux. Actually Malifaux is currently in an open beta testing, so I'm probably going to take another read through of it.

Another advantage of a system where a regular person has 3 actions and can use them to move-move-move is that it lets you fine tune movement rates to your combat round length if you're not using an existing system. We worked it out that the base speed should be 4 squares with lots of opportunities for feats and whatnot to increase that as well as a sprinting rule to get up to human limits (it is a heroic game I'm going for).

To spring, you need to move mostly in a straight line (one 45 degree direction change per move action of 2xspeed/8 squares of sprinting). If you need to turn more, you can do something like sprint-move-sprint but if any of your actions are sprinting, you get major melee defense penalties and the only attack action you can do if you sprint at any point in your turn is to slam into someone bull rush or tackle style. So you can sprint-attack-move, for example, hopefully body checking someone out of the way so you can go where you want after.

It's actually kind of neat, the various maneuvers you can construct with three actions and a good selection of things to choose from.

Intercept is also an idea we had for a feat-- it lets you add a 5'/1 square step and still make an attack when you use an action in the other person's turn.

 

[GMMichael]

Maybe Attack of Opportunity becomes a feat: gain one free attack action when your opponent uses his last action for the round.

I was considering "sprint" to be 3 movement actions...
"Charge" is two movement actions and an attack,
"Advance" is just one movement action, with two reserved for attack or defense.

Where it gets tricky is when reserved actions aren't defenses:
NPC1 attacks PC1.
PC1 chooses not to block, but to make his own attack.

The simplest solution is to just let both sides make their attacks, but should PC1 really be able to avoid enemy parries by simply waiting to attack until someone attacks him?

 

[nnms]

When someone approaches you to attack, there's a list of common things to do. Block and counter attack, step forward off the line and attack. Back up off the line of attack. The answer is pretty much never "I take it and attack back". What actually works will be a matter of timing, skill and other factors.

I was assuming that you'd always defend to some degree even if you didn't spend actions on it and then actions spend on it were like taking "fight defensively" and "total defense" in 3.x/Pathfinder.

The reason I separated sprint from a triple move is that it takes a particular approach to running when you want to get close to top human speed. I'd rather make movex3+sprint modifier = top human speed so that in order to reach the speeds of a champion athlete, you're doing something very different than just hustling here and there as you fight and defend. You have to go into "sprint mode" or something like that.

I think we might be taking this idea of 3 actions around + use them in other people's turns to make AoOs and going in different directions. Here's an example of play to illustrate what I'm thinking:

Orc1: Gets up off the bench, grabs his short bow, nocks an arrow.
Orc2: Also gets up, draws weapons and advances
Fighter: Advances, defensive action, attacks orc2: rolls dice+skill vs orc's skill. does damage, kills Orc2.
Orc3: Charges Fighter (move.move.attack) attack fighter: rolls dice+skill vs Fighter's skill + defense bonus for action spent defending, barely hits, Fighter's armour blocks most of the damage

In the above, the figther's bonus to defend himself would last until he goes again. Similarly, had he instead saved an action, the moment the orc came next to him, he could have attacked or done a block maneuver, but the opportunity to take an overall defensive posture had passed at that point.

How do you see it working out in game for what you're thinking?

 

[GMMichael]

When someone approaches you to attack, there's a list of common things to do. Block and counter attack, step forward off the line and attack. Back up off the line of attack. The answer is pretty much never "I take it and attack back". What actually works will be a matter of timing, skill and other factors.

Slight correction: "The answer -among normal people- is pretty much never 'I take it and attack back.'"
But the classic, yet cheesy, event of two swordsmen clashing swords between each other, and each struggling to out-muscle the other and finish the blow, is the result of two simultaneous attacks.
Further, there may be a distinct attack-parry-attack-parry rhythm to melee combat, but that sequence always begins with each fighter looking for an opportunity - and its possible that both see an opportunity to attack at the same time.
But let's note what kind of combat we're talking about here: one on one. It's not too common for a normal person to want to leave himself open to attack, so reserving an action or two for parrying sounds pretty likely. Heroes, monsters, animals - more likely to behave in a very different way.

Orc1: Gets up off the bench, grabs his short bow, nocks an arrow.
Orc2: Also gets up, draws weapons and advances
Fighter: Advances, defensive action, attacks orc2: rolls dice+skill vs orc's skill. does damage, kills Orc2.
Orc3: Charges Fighter (move.move.attack) attack fighter: rolls dice+skill vs Fighter's skill + defense bonus for action spent defending, barely hits, Fighter's armour blocks most of the damage

In the above, the figther's bonus to defend himself would last until he goes again. Similarly, had he instead saved an action, the moment the orc came next to him, he could have attacked or done a block maneuver, but the opportunity to take an overall defensive posture had passed at that point.

I've been running it like this:

Orc1: Gets up off the bench, grabs his short bow, nocks an arrow.
Orc2: Also gets up, draws weapons, and reserves an action (moving cautiously).
Fighter: Advances, attacks orc2 (rolls attack die+skill).
Orc2: uses that reserved action to attempt to parry (rolls defense die+skill).
Fighter outrolls orc2, scoring damage. Damage kills Orc2.
Orc3: Charges Fighter (move.move.attack) attack fighter: rolls dice+skill.
Fighter: Uses final action to Parry Orc3. Rolls dice+skill.
Fighter outrolls orc3, so Orc3 deals no damage.

 

[nnms]

Slight correction: "The answer -among normal people- is pretty much never 'I take it and attack back.'"
But the classic, yet cheesy, event of two swordsmen clashing swords between each other, and each struggling to out-muscle the other and finish the blow, is the result of two simultaneous attacks.

This could be a departure point in terms of what we're each looking for. If someone were to jam swords and try to force their blade forward in an actual sword fight, the other person simply levers their sword on that point and drives their blade into the enemy. And with the larger cross pieces of swords from the high middle ages, this becomes even safer to do as their blade will not be able to slip downwards at all.

Orc1: Gets up off the bench, grabs his short bow, nocks an arrow.
Orc2: Also gets up, draws weapons, and reserves an action (moving cautiously).
Fighter: Advances, attacks orc2 (rolls attack die+skill).
Orc2: uses that reserved action to attempt to parry (rolls defense die+skill).
Fighter outrolls orc2, scoring damage. Damage kills Orc2.
Orc3: Charges Fighter (move.move.attack) attack fighter: rolls dice+skill.
Fighter: Uses final action to Parry Orc3. Rolls dice+skill.
Fighter outrolls orc3, so Orc3 deals no damage.

Cool. I do like the active parry where you roll to cancel an attack. So what would happen if the Fighter had used all his actions and had none available for a parry? Automatic hit? Compare roll vs static defense?

 

[GMMichael]

At first, a fighter who has no actions left is one who spends most of his time swinging his sword, neglecting defense. This amounts to an automatic hit, damage reduced by armor.

But then I think, not all hits should be automatic if they're not blocked. What if someone's firing a bow at the fighter from far off, so the fighter chooses to primarily dodge his melee opponents? A far-off shot isn't an automatic hit. Nor is an unopposed spell.

My system (which is from where I get the 3-action combat idea) includes the "Attempt" in addition to the "Contest." The contest says that attackers and defenders roll. If the attacker wins, he deals damage. If the defender can't defend, he takes damage.

But an attempt is what happens when your only enemy is your own capabilities. For example, a player rolls an attempt to jump over a 20 foot body of water. Back to the combatants: if the defender can't defend, maybe the attacker still doesn't get an automatic hit; he has to make an attempt. If the attempt succeeds, then he deals damage.