Does True Seeing see some who is using Hide in Plain Sight

[zlorf]

Hi,

Does True Seeing (spell/gem) see someone who is using Hide in Plain Sight(Su) ability?

TIA
Z

 

[Sejs]

"True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding,..."

Nope.

Still have to beat their hide check with a spot check as normal.

 

[zlorf]

Some would argue that Hide in Plain Sight is not hiding but a supernatural ability that makes you invisible and the reason True Seeing doesn't work against someone who is normally hiding is that they are behind an object. When using Hide in Plain Sight there isn't actually a object to hide behind and therefore True Seeing see the character.

Then some would argue that you are using shadows to distort the fabric of space and therefore hidden to someone with True Seeing. The shadow plane provides the concealment.

Zlorf

ps im trying to settle a dispute with two of my players

"True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding,..."

Nope.

Still have to beat their hide check with a spot check as normal.

 

[Bagpuss]

It's a Supernatural ability so yes True Seeing works for the reasons you've given above, IMHO, if it was an (Ex) ability then it wouldn't.

 

[Legildur]

It's a Supernatural ability so yes True Seeing works for the reasons you've given above, IMHO, if it was an (Ex) ability then it wouldn't.

So True Seeing thwarts the ability of Shadowdancers, but not of Rangers?

 

[Thanee]

So True Seeing thwarts the ability of Shadowdancers, but not of Rangers?

That's how I would play it, though there is a lot of debate, because of the vagueness involved.

A ranger isn't actually hiding in plain sight, but using sophisticated mundane hiding techniques. There nothing magical about it.

A shadowdancer, however, is somehow using the shadows around to create something to hide in/behind. That's how I see it, anyways. And True Seeing should remove everything, that allows the shadowdancer to hide, so even though the hiding itself is a mundane use of the skill, there is magic involved in creating the opportunity to hide, which - once removed - makes it impossible to hide from the true seeing observer.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bagpuss]

That's how I would play it, though there is a lot of debate, because of the vagueness involved.

A ranger isn't actually hiding in plain sight, but using sophisticated mundane hiding techniques. There nothing magical about it.

I have to agree a ranger would be using sophisticated camouflage, like a ghillie suit where as the Assassin and shadowdancer use a magical effect to bend light and shadow around them. True seeing does defeat the rangers Hide in Plain Sight (Ex) because there is no illusion or trickery, but it does defeat and Assassin and Shadowdancers Hide in Plain Sight (Su).

Oh and thanks for pointing out that the Ranger's ability is an (Ex) one. They could do with going through the Monster manual making some creature Blindsense (Ex) rather than (Su) like a Bat's for example. It is an important distinction.

 

[Thanee]

You mean like this?

BAT

Blindsense (Ex): A bat notices and locates creatures within 20 feet. Opponents still have 100% concealment against a creature with blindsense.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

From a rules perspective:

Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like.

...

True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means.

By definition, a magical means of hiding is not a mundane means of hiding.

So, True Seeing would negate Hide in Plain Sight.

 

[Bagpuss]

You mean like this?
Bye
Thanee

Duh, what's the one you don't get when polymorphing any more but really should?