Does Water Breathing allow spell casting?

[Henrix]

Uhh, no. Generally speaking, the closer you get to a solid, the better it will carry vibration. Vibration doesn't carry through a void, and that includes the space between molecules in the substance.

But enough physics...
[/i].

Carrying sound is one thing, making it another. Just try to clap your hands under water. Good, did it work? Not good, huh?

Carrying vibration is one thing, setting it into vibration another. And our vocal chords work a lot through compressing air, which you cannot do with a liquid.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

So you're saying that if you stick your mouth right over the jet of a hot tub that you can speak clearly? Nah.

One does not wander lightly into a disagreement with kreynolds, least of all not in the rules forum, but I have to say this is the kind of straw man argument that makes it all worthwhile.

Coming from someone that has in fact had their lungs filled with water and nearly drowned (that would be me), I can promise you, you can't make any sounds whatsoever, no matter how hard you try.

Cool! Me too! Can we be in the "Almost Drowned" club together?

I couldn't make any noise as I was unconscious at the time. Of course, if I had the Remain Conscious feat, I still couldn't have made any noise, because as everyone knows, human beings are not capable of making any noise while they are unconscious, regardless of whether or not they have some magic that allows them to remain conscious and make noise.

Wulf

 

[kreynolds]

Sorry to hear that k. That's got to have been rough.

It does suck. You don't truly understand the meaning of helpless until you have an entire lake pushing you down into the silt. But I still love swimming.

Having much more friendly experiences (and many of them, being on the swim team for 4 years) with water though, I can assure you that it is possible to speak underwater.

You had air in your lungs, that's why.

Dear Wulf: Kreynolds has no discernable anatomy so you do not get sneak attack damage.

LOL

 

[IceBear]

Carrying sound is one thing, making it another. Just try to clap your hands under water. Good, did it work? Not good, huh?

Carrying vibration is one thing, setting it into vibration another. And our vocal chords work a lot through compressing air, which you cannot do with a liquid.

Again, how can you cast spells underwater in 3E with the existing rules?

IceBear

 

[Jeremy]

Bad Wulf. Nother attack. Still no sneak attack damage dice.

<goes and sits in the corner>

I'm doing a sit-in until someone reads my other couple of posts detailing the reasons why people can speak underwater (mainly because they don't have water in their mouth and lungs) and either a) refutes them, b) agrees with them, or c) explains to me why they were ignored. ;P

 

[kreynolds]

but I have to say this is the kind of straw man argument that makes it all worthwhile.

[sarcasm]Sure thing, buddy! [/sarcasm]

I couldn't make any noise as I was unconscious at the time.

And you call my argument straw man?! Like I said, you have no ground to stand upon. Sit down before you hurt yourself.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm doing a sit-in until someone reads my other couple of posts detailing the reasons why people can speak underwater (mainly because they don't have water in their mouth and lungs) and either a) refutes them, b) agrees with them, or c) explains to me why they were ignored. ;P

Well, I can comment on one thing. I was a kid once, and I know that if you have air in your lungs, and you yell quite loudly, your own voice is damn near perfectly clear to you. Since all that is required of a Vocal component is that you can hear and understand your own voice, you should be able to use your voice without difficulty underwater, provided you have the air (not water) in your lungs to do so.

 

[Jeremy]

<hits himself over the head so in future realizations come to him faster>

So Water Breathing characters can't talk because unlike normally, when they are holding their breath and exhaling air to speak as normal, in Water Breathing their mouth and throat and lungs are filled with water because they are now capable of breathing it.

So I'm an idiot. I missed that 5 times.

However, if that's the case, and that's how it works. Then I'd have to say that a) Wulf's right in his point. Water can vibrate vocal chords because anything that causes friction can vibrate something. b) IceBear (and I) are right in our point that there is no better spell dealing with water and our anatomy to deal with speech. And c) Wizards made this spell to breath underwater, you don't think they took into account their being able to cast underwater too? These are wizards, they have to proactively plan to stay alive or they die.

It's in their contract.

But as we already clarified in this post, that I am in fact, an idiot, I could be wrong.

 

[IceBear]

Well, I hate bringing real world physics into D&D as it always gets ugly. I'm looking at the rules.

There has always been underwater adventuring in D&D (well, maybe not *always* but it's been around for a long time) and it was waterbreathing that allowed you to do most of the things that you needed to do to successfully adventure underwater, and this is where I stand - not with physics in an RPG game.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

[BHowever, if that's the case, and that's how it works. Then I'd have to say that a) Wulf's right in his point. Water can vibrate vocal chords because anything that causes friction can vibrate something. [/B]

Not enough to speak. It's impossible. If the spell allows speach, then that's fine, but without magic, you can't speak. There's no argument here.

Think about it, if you can only understand your own speach underwater by yelling and using up air in your lungs, how well do you think that's gonna work with water? Not at all, that's how well.

[Bb) IceBear (and I) are right in our point that there is no better spell dealing with water and our anatomy to deal with speech. [/B]

No doubt the two of you are right about that.

And c) Wizards made this spell to breath underwater, you don't think they took into account their being able to cast underwater too? These are wizards, they have to proactively plan to stay alive or they die.

Good point.