Does Wildshape stack with Enlarge Person?

[Meladorn]

Wait, what? Wild Shape doesn't change your type anymore...It was errataed. You could Wild Shape into a Medium animal, but because the Enlarge Person is still in effect, you'd get the extra size, str, etc.

Although having downloaded most of the errata from WotC, I can’t find anything about the druid’s wild shape ability not changing their type from humanoid to animal. Would appreciate a link if you have one.

Personally I say the best solution is to ban druids, but NOONE EVER LISTENS TO ME

Yeah, I think it knocks about party balance too. A 5th level druid being able to wild shaping into a tiger, rhinoceros, or velociraptor with only minor help is a sure fire way to make the party’s fighter feel second rate.

 

[Tetsubo]

Even if your Shapeshift changes your size? My DM recently ruled that it doesn't, and FWIW, I agree with him. I can Shapeshift into Predator form and be a Large Predator with help from the wizard, but when I shift into Ferocious Slayer, Large is as big as I get.

Your type doesn't change. If you are a Medium Human and have Enlarge Person cast on you, you become Large. Which means that your Shapeshift size also increases. It's a nice boost for damage and reach. I don't think it's that big a deal actually... and remember Improved Natural Attack for increased combat effectiveness...

 

[Sithobi1]

Er...PHB Errata?

 

[Darklone]

Druids and clerics are the strongest classes anyhow... and nowadays these two get two new full groups of overpowered feats for their own (Divine and Wild ones)... Duh, talking about balance.

 

[Christian]

Your type doesn't change. If you are a Medium Human and have Enlarge Person cast on you, you become Large. Which means that your Shapeshift size also increases. It's a nice boost for damage and reach. I don't think it's that big a deal actually... and remember Improved Natural Attack for increased combat effectiveness...

Yes, but don't multiple magical effects that increase size not stack? I don't see how these two effects evade that restriction ... This would actually be an enourmous power-up, as a Huge/Long creature has 10' reach.

And yes, my druid is taking INA(bite) at 9th level, I didn't miss that one.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes, but don't multiple magical effects that increase size not stack? I don't see how these two effects evade that restriction ...

There are two ways to look at it.

1. You're normally a Medium human. In the form of (say) an Ape, you're Large; therefore Wildshape (changing you from Medium to Large) is, in this case, a magical effect that increases size.

2. Apes are normally Large. When Wildshaping into an Ape, you take the form of a Large Ape - that is to say, an Ape whose size is unchanged from the norm. Wildshape has put you in the shape of another creature, but that shape is normal size, not increased in size.

If you see it as 1., then Enlarge Person would be attempting to increase in size a person who had already increased in size via a magical effect, and the two would not stack.

If you see it as 2., then Enlarge Person would be taking an Ape of the normal size, and making it an Ape increased in size; the 'multiple magical effects increasing size' rule is inapplicable, since only one is increasing size; the other merely changed the shape into something that happens to be bigger than you were originally.

-Hyp.

 

[Christian]

I can see the argument for a normal druid. Tetsubo seemed to imply that it was more clear that the effects stack for a druid using the alternate Shapeshift rules from PHB2; but to me, it seems more clear that it doesn't ...

 

[Legildur]

If you see it as 2., then Enlarge Person would be taking an Ape of the normal size, and making it an Ape increased in size; the 'multiple magical effects increasing size' rule is inapplicable, since only one is increasing size; the other merely changed the shape into something that happens to be bigger than you were originally.

So Hyp, what would your ruling be in this position and why?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So Hyp, what would your ruling be in this position and why?

Before the Alternate Form changes, I considered Animal Growth to work just fine on a druid Wildshaped into a Large form, because I don't consider changing shape into a creature that happens to be larger than you are normally to be a 'magical effect that increases size'.

So after the Alternate Form changes, I'd rule the same way for Enlarge Person.

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

Interesting........