Does Your Group Allow "Orb of Acid" As Written in Your Game

[Land Outcast]

I want to denounce a warmage:
orb of force, sudden maximize.

54 dmg, no attack, no SR, no DR, no recistances, no save.

I'm just thinking some classess and spells should be looked over, and not just allowed because they were supposedly playtested.

 

[Rackhir]

I want to denounce a warmage:
orb of force, sudden maximize.

54 dmg, no attack, no SR, no DR, no recistances, no save.

I'm just thinking some classess and spells should be looked over, and not just allowed because they were supposedly playtested.

Where do you get the "no attack" from? It does require a touch attack.

 

[ThirdWizard]

A wizard in my game can throw around 50 damage area spells at level 9 so the damage on orb of acid doesn't seem so high.

 

[Grimstaff]

Being instanteously created does not necessarly mean it is not a magical effect. If you had instantaneously created, say, a +3 arrow, only a normal arrow would have been fired at the demilich, without the attendent bonus to hit and damage. Obviously, in the natural world, balls of acid do not streak unerringly towards their targets. Don't forget, true strike was in effect as well. Your DM would have been more than fair to rule the spell deflected, or at the very least give the demilich a 50% concealment miss chance.

On the other hand, if your DM is likely to rule so literally when these issues arise, he may want to take steps to plan ahead, knowing what weapons and spells his players are likely to use.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The Orb spells put another nail in the coffin of the lone BBEG. Without jumping through hoops, touch AC is gonna be low for most classes/monsters. High damage, single target, easy to hit with, no SR, no save spells just make it near impossible to do any real evil without a commitee approach.

I have trouble with the Orbs in my game, mostly because I favor powerful BBEG's with cannon fodder lackeys. A coupla well placed Orbs and the BBEG is down for the count and the lackeys are... well, lacking. Especially casters. Thier low HP and low AC's make them prime targets for sudden maximized or empowered Orbs. One usually does the trick.

 

[Ovinomancer]

On the other hand, if your DM is likely to rule so literally when these issues arise, he may want to take steps to plan ahead, knowing what weapons and spells his players are likely to use.

Being a DM surprised, sometimes unpleasantly, by player tactics, here is a counter to your argument. As DM I have to craft the setting, play the bit players, infuse evil into the Lich King (tm), and lovingly create the reams of stats necessary to a good session. I do not have the time to consider all of the things that the PC's can or may do. Just the high points. And when, conniving little goblin-spawn that they are, they uncover a gem like the Orb spells (which, yes, I did read about 3 or so months ago) and hurl them at my Mighty Golem of Majestical Magical Immunity (also tm), thus bypassing all defenses in a mind-numbing orgy of maximized acidic fury...

With less embelishment:
I have to keep track of so many different rules and interactions, on top of creating an interesting and enjoyable backdrop for my players, that it is easy to miss things that totally wipe out the central crux of the scheduled conflict. When the things like the Orb spells are introduced, things that bypass standard defense mechanisms (in this case SR/save) they throw monkey wrenches into my game. While I work to catch them, some slip through, and hit me upside the head in the middle of the session. This can lead to unpleasantness as DM and/or player expectations are not met. BBEG down in one hit? The three hours of prep the DM put in dashed, and the three sessions of emotional buildup to the anti-climatic victory is a letdown to the players. Yes, BBEG's should be prepared for the common things, and even the uncommon. But you can't prepare for everything, and those players can be sneaky!

 

[Pants]

There's a big problem with golem immunities in 3.5e as well. They're "immune to spells that allow spell resistance". However, what about the flaming sword? +1d6 fire damage... but that isn't affected by Spell Resistance. So, golems fall easy prey to flaming/frost/corrosive/shock weapons.

Cheers!

Golem Magic Immunity is one of the dumbest sacred cows still stuck in D&D. It really makes no sense. If a wizard can create a construct that's completely immune to most types of magic... why the hell doesn't he make everything that way?
[/threadjack off]

As for the orb spells, yeah they're weird and I'm sure your players wouldn't mind if they're hous-ruled, as you said, the encounter left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

I'd be inclined to use the original versions from Tome and Blood. Much more versatile, less cheez, and their Evocation spells!

 

[ThirdWizard]

Thier low HP and low AC's make them prime targets for sudden maximized or empowered Orbs. One usually does the trick.

Not to be picky, it has been mentioned already in the thread, but is it a problem with the orbs or sudden metamagic?

I do not use the sudden metamagics as printed.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Obviously, in the natural world, balls of acid do not streak unerringly towards their targets.

Those by orb of acid casting wizards with decent aim seem to.

This in the end is the crucial part of the spell. Anything magical about the acid glob finished instantaneously. It was just a 3-inch 15d6 (I rolled 51 on the first one, fifty two on the second) ball of acid, baby.

Don't forget, true strike was in effect as well. Your DM would have been more than fair to rule the spell deflected, or at the very least give the demilich a 50% concealment miss chance.

I'm not too sure how you figure this. True Strike (quickened, I don't know where all this sudden maximise is coming from) affects the wizards ability to hit, not the targets ability to avoid.

On the other hand, if your DM is likely to rule so literally when these issues arise, he may want to take steps to plan ahead, knowing what weapons and spells his players are likely to use.

Orb of Acid was a recently gained spell. One would have to read the spell, read the paragraph on instantaneous creation effects in the PHB and then extrapolate to the amazing synergy with a fool carrying around an anti-magic field. Sometimes, a DM just can't see this sort of stuff coming. I tell you now, Anti-Magic Field and Orb of Acid is a damn nasty combination. Forget resistance to acid, I think the only thing protecting a target would be immunity (I don't think this would be cancelled by the AMF).

i find it odd that no one has commented on sudden maximize. It would have droped the lich thing in 3 to 4 round had it not been for the sudden maximize. Sudden maximize is broken, not the orb spells.

I'm not understanding your point here. As it was, the Demilich was destroyed in 2 rounds with the thing only getting the chance to do something once (and a fat lot it could do while caught in an anti-magic field). If Lucifus had have known what they were facing, he would have prepared a quickend Orb of Acid and with a little aiming, the thing would have been destroyed almost instantly.

A wizard in my game can throw around 50 damage area spells at level 9 so the damage on orb of acid doesn't seem so high.

When you have a few friends around the enemy though, you don't want to be blasting 50 points of damage around willy nilly. As someone else mentioned, the spell restricts the options of a DM to go with a single BBEG. In concert with an assisting character with an anti-magic field up, you are going to very quickly take down even the toughest of single enemies.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Tetsubo]

I only have access to the Lesser version at the moment. But we use it as written. I apply the Cold descriptor to it most of the time via Energy Substitution. I like my Sorcerers to have flexibility...