Don't make me roll for initiative.........again

[Raven Crowking]

Actually, a DM could use your <snip> method in round one, have a player place the index cards in order as the DM goes along and circular initiative by default will always be faster by the start of round two. Every single time. It does not need to take 3 or 4 rounds to catch up. The DM is caught up by the end of round one.

And, regardless of what init system you use, the advantage of calling it out at least once is demonstrated.

BTW, Werk, the problem you cite isn't with the countdown, it's with the countdown being used when unnecessary. The DM knows his inits, he should have jumped to 18 unless he had something faster.

 

[DonTadow]

Maybe there is something critical that I'm leaving out, but if so only because it seems so common-sensical to me that I am not aware of it.

Or, you can choose to believe that I am lying.

Whatever!

I dont think RAven's lying. I think he's not explaining the entire style of his game, which he doesnt have to in the context of this argument, but it does strengthen his testament. I think that the rule of initiative is something that RAven finds important to his world and the feeling of it. I've read a few homerules by raven that doesnt contest to him pulling it out his but. His play style is obviously different, but not wrong (can there be a wrong play stylel... i guess not playing).

I think the point of this is disecting the users first question. For the user, this playstyle is an unfair timewaster and not akin to the users style, thus the user should leave the game and find something elese, or seriously talk to his DM and the other players.

 

[werk]

BTW, Werk, the problem you cite isn't with the countdown, it's with the countdown being used when unnecessary. The DM knows his inits, he should have jumped to 18 unless he had something faster.

Yes, my problem is the DM doing the countdown. It's always unneccessary IMO.

 

[DonTadow]

The countdown seems to slow down the action IMO. I mean the DM comes up with some diaglogue about the viscious orcs prodding through the sea of skeltons smashing PC4 into the hard stone wall for 22 damage.

13
12
11
10
9

...

 

[Storm Raven]

Let's test that.

Round 1: roll init. clatter-clatter-clatter.....
"Tommy: init?"
"Umm, 4. Darn it."
"Rick?"
"18"
"Rick's cohort?"
"7"
"Steve?"
"22"
"Steve's cohort?"
"23"
"Jeff?"
"11"
"Jeff's cohort?"
"14"
"Matt?"
"13"
"Cohort?"
"15"
"Bill?"
"18"
"Write down my NPCs......Okay, Steve, you first."

vs.

"25...
24...
23...22.."
"Hey, I'm 23! I will....."

Yes, Circular init can start catching up at rounds 3-4 but I doubt that anyone here would notice any appreciable loss in playing speed.

And my question for the individual-init haters is:

Have you played 3.0 rolling init each round under a GM who was otherwise up to your expected standards?

Because I've played circular init under decent GMs and I've never noticed a speed increase.

You left out the critical point: circular init and index cards. Once you get the index cards in order, everything runs smoothly. The DM just gets everyone to tell him their initiative, and puts the character cards in order. Of course, this method assumes that he has character cards made up before the session starts for all the PCs, and some cards he can use for their foes, but that is pre-session prep time, and isn't going to slow down combat in session. (For the record, I put together cards for all of the foes for the PCs ahead of time, so I have their stats conveniently in front of me when I'm running a scenario).

Once combat starts, all the DM does is flip to the next card (putting the current card in the back of the stack) and call out who is next in order. There is never any confusion over who goes next, and combat flows quickly. If someone delays or readys, I just turn the card so that it sticks out of the stack to remind me that they are waiting before acting. This method is always faster than rerolling initative every round, and faster than doing an initiative countdown every round.

 

[Goldmoon]

You left out the critical point: circular init and index cards. Once you get the index cards in order, everything runs smoothly. He just gets everyone to tell him their initiative, and puts the character cards in order. Of course, this method assumes that he has character cards made up before the session stands for all the PCs, and some cards he can use for their foes, but that is pre-session prep time, and isn't going to slow down combat in session. (For the record, I put together cards for all of the foes for the PCs ahead of time, so I have their stats conveniently in front of me when I'm running a scenario).

Once combat starts, all the DM does is flip to the next card (putting the current card in the back of the stack) and call out who is next in order. There is never any confusion over who goes next, and combat flows quickly. If someone delays or readys, I just turn the card so that it sticks out of the stack to remind me that they are waiting before acting. This method is [i[always[/i] faster than rerolling initative every round, and faster than doing an initiative countdown every round.

Next time I DM, Im going to try this. It sounds like a great idea!

 

[Infiniti2000]

Of course, this method assumes that he has character cards made up before the session starts for all the PCs, and some cards he can use for their foes, but that is pre-session prep time, and isn't going to slow down combat in session. (For the record, I put together cards for all of the foes for the PCs ahead of time, so I have their stats conveniently in front of me when I'm running a scenario).

I wholeheartedly agree. And, I'm not sure if Storm Raven means to take this one step further, which I do. I use prerolled initiatives. I roll inits for all NPCs prior to the session (more than enough, maybe 3-4 of them). I make the PCs roll inits for the characters prior to the session, given their default modifiers. They give me maybe 15-20 rolls, written at the top right of the card (where all the NPCs inits are written on their respective cards). Prior to any encounter I have the cards presorted.

When an encounter starts, there's no rolling, no shuffling, no sorting. It's an immediate impact of, "Okay, Verilia, you go first, what do you do?"

That undeniably creates the most interest because players have to act/react without pause.

If a player's init changes, I already know it because they would have had to inform me that they casted a buff spell (e.g. cat's grace), and thus I take that into account.

I used to use the countdown (or was it countup?) in 2E and thank God I've gotten past that. The last thing I want in the middle of an interesting and tense combat is a constant reminder of metagame issues. I'd even prefer to keep hit points/AC out of the conversation, but I can't imagine spouting off initiatives again. Ugh!!

 

[werk]

Next time I DM, Im going to try this. It sounds like a great idea!

Agreed. When I first heard about using idex cards I thought "Index cards are for professional geeks or high school speech class."

I2k kept talking about it, and how great they were. I got some summoned monster cards ( ) and started using index cards IMC. Originally just a card with name, class, HP, AC, and saves wiht white space that I could write init on.

Changed my life. I'll never skip anyone in init order again!

 

[Twowolves]

Maybe there is something critical that I'm leaving out, but if so only because it seems so common-sensical to me that I am not aware of it.

Or, you can choose to believe that I am lying.

Whatever!

I believe you RC! Don't know if that makes you feel any better though!

 

[KarinsDad]

No, they cannot. They can refuse to play in a game I run; they cannot cause me to stop running games. This isn't an elected office. There is no "In" or "Out" to vote me to or from. I offer to run; they play or do not play.

You misunderstood me. They can vote you out as DM for that campaign and vote somebody else in for THAT group. If you choose to play in that same group, it is up to you.

Sure, you can go DM a different group, but the first group can still vote you out as DM. It doesn't have to be a formal vote, it could just be a refusal to play in your game.