D&D 5E "Doom Sun" − reconstructing a 5e Dark Sun setting for the DMs Guild

[Maxperson]

I am talking about how 5e (and to some degree 4e) continues to reinforce rules and narratives that feel religiously coercive.

When fantasy themes of religiosity become genocidal and intolerant, it can even be triggering.

Throwing people into the sun, because they refuse to convert?

No. That is not ok.

Read the DMG man. It offers up all kind of options, including no gods and other religious forms that are not the standard. As long as they've written that, nothing is "religiously coercive." Use one of them.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I see a potential conflict between the coherence or "orthodxy" with the old canon and the necessary creative freedom. Some players want to be loyal to the old canon, but others would rather to can customize in their way, for example adding martial adepts as gladiators in the arena, totemist shamans (magic of incarnum) who worship Lovecraftian kaijus, sorcerers who cast primal magic, vestige binders and shadowcasters (3.5 Tome of Magic), or psionic "ardents" (a new class from 3.5 The complete psionic. Why not dromites, elans, maenads, xephs or syands (PC races from 3.5) in Dark Sun? Minotaurs, "drays" and tielflings were possible in 4th. even the shadar-kai. If you want there is a crossover with Jackandor thanks special planar gate.

In your tabletop you choose the type of religion in your DS game: deism, animism, cult to the leader, worship of the ancestors, or the nature spirits..

And even if an official DS setting is published again, the metaplot, if this is not rebooted, will be frozen for more years, with the rest of no-FR settings, and what a pity, because I would like to know the fate of Kalidnay

 

[dave2008]

No, just so more much ignorance that statement. First off most ancient Greeks didn't have literalist interptations of Greek Mythology, just like a lot of modern Christians don't have literalist interruptations of the bible.

The Greeks didn't actually belief Zues was running away raping folks.

Yes, I often have to remind people that the mythology we have today is not what people believed and worshoped 2000 years ago. It is not like the myths that survived where a "bible" of ancient Greek religion. What people believed and practiced was mostly based on oral traditions and varied widely throughout Greece and beyond. That is pretty the same for any mythology/religion.

EDIT: I did it again - I need to stop!

 

[Shardstone]

Yes, I often have to remind people that the mythology we have today is not what people believed and worshoped 2000 years ago. It is not like the myths that survived where a "bible" of ancient Greek religion. What people believed and practiced was mostly based on oral traditions and varied widely throughout Greece and beyond. That is pretty the same for any mythology/religion.

EDIT: I did it again - I need to stop!

Yes!! In Dark Sun, there is NO WAY to keep a consistent mythology, let alone a formal religion. It is impossible. Almost every Sorcerer-King portrays themselves as gods, and the people are often times isolated in the wasteland and only passing down oral tradition. This is ultimately why trying to make a solid answer has to be DM dependent. The setting logically does not make cultural sense otherwise. The only thing that the people have truly accepted on Athas, and later in Fyreen, is that the gods have abandoned them (and some ppl prob won't accept that!). This doesn't even mean the gods really did abandon them. I could, on the spot, come up with a host of divinities that were in Athas this whole time not doing naughty word, or doing something else, etc.

Oral tradition, individual faith, and the mutation of mythology across Doomspace ought to be a core component of it (should you have an interest in these subjects).

 

[Charlaquin]

I am talking about how 5e (and to some degree 4e) continues to reinforce rules and narratives that feel religiously coercive.

When fantasy themes of religiosity become genocidal and intolerant, it can even be triggering.

Throwing people into the sun, because they refuse to convert?

No. That is not ok.

I generally agree with you that the game would benefit from leaving room for more diverse forms of religion. But, I think not being ok is the point in this particular case - the gods of Fyreen are the villains.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, I often have to remind people that the mythology we have today is not what people believed and worshoped 2000 years ago. It is not like the myths that survived where a "bible" of ancient Greek religion. What people believed and practiced was mostly based on oral traditions and varied widely throughout Greece and beyond. That is pretty the same for any mythology/religion.

EDIT: I did it again - I need to stop!

And with Greek mythology specifically, a great deal of what we know of it today comes from plays, which were retellings of famous stories pretty much everyone would have been familiar with, involving popular characters… It’s more comparable to the MCU than the Bible.

 

[Faolyn]

I am talking about how 5e (and to some degree 4e) continues to reinforce rules and narratives that feel religiously coercive.

When fantasy themes of religiosity become genocidal and intolerant, it can even be triggering.

Throwing people into the sun, because they refuse to convert?

No. That is not ok.

So just ignore that bit. The sun just became a black hole through normal means or through magical mishap or through a weird rift in the planes. You never have to have gods in any setting. You can even remove gods from established settings like the Realms, if you like (they're not gods, just powerful beings that people worship like gods). You also don't need to have Doomsphere in your setting, either.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Yes, I often have to remind people that the mythology we have today is not what people believed and worshoped 2000 years ago. It is not like the myths that survived where a "bible" of ancient Greek religion. What people believed and practiced was mostly based on oral traditions and varied widely throughout Greece and beyond. That is pretty the same for any mythology/religion.

EDIT: I did it again - I need to stop!

The closest thing to a bible you get with Ancient Greeks is the Chaldean Oracles, which has been lost for centuries, except for fragments mentioned in various commentaries, a lose feels like a hot knife in the soul.

 

[rooneg]

Dark Sun did things the wrong way around for what they were trying to do. The campaign setting should have represented the status quo AFTER the novels were done rather than selling a boxed set and then immediately invalidating it with novels. But from the numbers Ben Riggs posted last month it looks like they were primarily focused on selling novels and the campaign settings were just there to drive novel sales. So with that perspective they might have viewed the campaign setting as a teaser for the novels first and a game setting second.

Agreed that it would have made more sense to set the boxed sets after the novels, but that would have required a LOT more coordination between the game side of TSR and the novel side of TSR, and it’s pretty clear that didn’t really exist (especially in Dark Sun related stuff, IIRC there are quotes from Lynn Abbey floating around that basically confirm that her novels weren’t even getting read and commented on by the games side of the company). So, yes, TSR was making a ton of money by writing novels set in their game worlds, and their desire to make the novels canonical resulted in unfortunate metaplot updates of the game settings, but this wasn’t some sort of fiendish plan, it was more that it was a pretty dysfunctional company where the right hand and the left hand rarely talked until after stuff was printed and out in the world.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

If the page makes gods as objectively existing, and literally every aspect of the story revolves around gods, and almost every other paragraph propagandizes gods again and again, that feels like "forcing" gods on D&D players.

That ship sailed in 1e, the D&D multiverse is a Thiestic multiverse, BUT thiestic religions aren't the only ones in D&D, heck they aren't even the only ones in FR.

But yeah the Gods are real in D&D (and in real life, but its fine if you don't believe in them), but in D&D there those who question if they are worthy of worship, and settings were those particular deities are unknown to exist or not, and those who chose to rever other things instead of Gods, such as philosophies, demons, angels, titans, devils, weird Far Realmsian horrors.

This is true in FR, Greyhawk, Dragonlance,Planescape, Spelljammer, Nentir Vale/Nerath, Exandria, etc..., with pre5e Eberron as the only exception.