Doomsayer (Warlock Paragon) question...

[Saitou]

There is a second Warlock power that was errata'd to have a save ends effect and is a Fear effect as well.

That brings the grand total powers with the Fear keyword that have an effect that can be ended with a save to four I believe. Across all classes.

I think earlier in design the Star Pact was more Cthulhu than it is now, relying on fear effects and mind altering stuff instead of just being a hybrid. Guess some things went under the radar when they changed it.

I don't think it will be fixed.

 

[WarlockLord]

I noticed this too.

I guess there's a build focused around doomsayer, prismatic spray, spell focus, and the orb of imposition.

But in the end, doomsayer, as cool a concept as it is, still sucks.

 

[bganon]

Huh? No wand has the "fear" keyword. The wand might have a power that has the "fear" keyword, but that's not the same thing, and it doesn't mean powers cast using that wand as an implement gain any keywords. A wizard casting a fireball using a wand of howl of doom doesn't somehow get to add "fear" to the fireball.

BTW, I believe Hurl through Hell has been errata'd so that the prone and stunned has (save ends). But Doomsayer's Proclamation still kind of stinks, since the complete list of powers it applies to is (from the D&DI Compendium):

Astral Weapon (paladin paragon daily)
Dread Star (warlock 1)
Hurl through Hell (warlock 29)
Prismatic Spray (wizard 25)

... and that's it.

[EDIT: bam, ninja'd]

 

[Tale]

Huh? No wand has the "fear" keyword. The wand might have a power that has the "fear" keyword, but that's not the same thing, and it doesn't mean powers cast using that wand as an implement gain any keywords. A wizard casting a fireball using a wand of howl of doom doesn't somehow get to add "fear" to the fireball.

Yes, it does. Any class or racial power using a weapon or implement that has a power gets to use that power's keywords.

See PHB 226. Also discussed here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=233456

 

[Zetesofos]

yeah, it's kind of a shame. A good way to make it better would be to do the following

Doomsayer's Oath (11th level): You gain a +1 to attack rolls with the fear keyword.

Doomsayers Proclamation (16th level): When ever you use an attack with the fear keyword, you may roll twice and take the higher result. If neither attack hits, you are dazed until the end of your next turn.

It's similar to the Divine Oracle and seems to be balanced enough, though it's hard to say. No one I've known has played a warlock yet

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

With the custserve ruling that wands impart the keyword of the power that they posess to any power used with the wand, and the ability to manufacture wands with any spell in them, this make the Doomsayer the most broken PP of the PHB. The math of the situation is that if you make a fear keyword wand and use any power that has a save ends status effect, you can easily make the save all but impossible.

Take an orb wizard that MCs into Starlock to get into the Doomsayer PP. Assuming that their wis is 20 (not at all unreasonable) then they impose a -5 to the roll. Add in the spell focus and you get a total of a -7 to the roll, and requiring a 17 to save. With the double roll and take the lowest, that means that you have only a 4% to save! Sleep with a 4% to save means nite-nite for a long time. On average that is 25 round of unconsciousness for any enemy hit. That sounds like the most powerful striker ability in the game, and it is an area effect.

I think that this makes the Doomsayer not only a must have for any orb wizard, but completely broken. The emphasis on the math of the system was supposed to be universal in the system, but I am pretty convinced that the designers forgot to check what double roll take the highest/lowest would do to the math, especially on saves. The Divine Oracle has a double roll that hoses the attack roll math, but at least the defenses scale with level. Saves do not. At least the elven accuracy double roll is an encounter power. The Doomsayer and the Divine Oracle abilities are basically triggered effects that are at-will and free actions. I wonder if the designers are saying oops yet.

 

[bganon]

Yes, it does. Any class or racial power using a weapon or implement that has a power gets to use that power's keywords.

See PHB 226. Also discussed here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=233456

Um, hmmm. Damn.

Okay, I guess I'm just stuck with thinking that custserve (and to some extent the PHB itself) is just plain wrong on this. It makes some kind of sense for weapon attacks, but the cheese potential of it applying to all items seems nutty.

Besides, it's still not clear to me that applying the "fear" keyword to a sleep spell makes it a "fear effect". I guess the custserve ruling is yes, though? Gah.

 

[frankthedm]

I noticed this too.

I guess there's a build focused around doomsayer, prismatic spray, spell focus, and the orb of imposition.

But in the end, doomsayer, as cool a concept as it is, still sucks.

Indeed. After looking over everything, even being a Cthulhu mythos fan[atic], star pact does not look that great to me. Maybe I am too impatient, but I'd rather be killing foes than delaying foes.

 

[Nifft]

Doomsayer has one useless ability -- better than Battle Mage's Arcane Riposte, though -- and some really awesome powers.

IMHO it's fine.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Saitou]

I wonder if the designers are saying oops yet.

Yeah. They are.

But like I said, I doubt they'll ever fix it, since it is such a glaring mistake they may not want to admit it. But you never know.

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