D&D 5E Doubling back for features you passed up?

[orderofthings]

Is there any way, homebrew or RAW, to double back and get a class feature you passed up? Let's say I have a ranger, and I want Colossus Slayer AND Horde breaker. Would you let one of your players sacrifice a Defensive tactic at 7th to go back and get one they passed up?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Is there any way, homebrew or RAW, to double back and get a class feature you passed up? Let's say I have a ranger, and I want Colossus Slayer AND Horde breaker. Would you let one of your players sacrifice a Defensive tactic at 7th to go back and get one they passed up?

There isn't a RAW way. You could allow it in homebrew, but I wouldn't - the function of these class abilities are different, and sacrificing a defensive ability for an offensive ability is part of that cherry-picking optimization that can lead to unbalanced characters ("I can kill anything in one hit, but also, one hit will kill me!"). A little bit like this might not invoke that in one go, but I'd be hesitant to set the precedent.

Also, I like the fact that there's "hard choices" as you level up - you can't have everything you'd like to have for one character. It encourages you to look forward to your next character.

 

[MonkeyWrench]

I allow PCs at 20+ level to take additional class features, either from their subclass or another within their base class, as epic boons.

 

[Tormyr]

One way would be to Multiclass Colossus Slayer/Horde Breaker. It means that you sacrifice everything where there is pure overlap and no optional choice. So Extra Attack does not give a third attack to a Colossus Slayer 5 / Horde Breaker 5.

Of course the DM would have to be okay with this. I would recommend just choosing 1 archetype and going with it. YMMV.

 

[jaelis]

One way would be to Multiclass Colossus Slayer/Horde Breaker. It means that you sacrifice everything where there is pure overlap and no optional choice. So Extra Attack does not give a third attack to a Colossus Slayer 5 / Horde Breaker 5.

Of course the DM would have to be okay with this. I would recommend just choosing 1 archetype and going with it. YMMV.

FYI, Jeremy Crawford has said the multiclass rules are not intended to let a class multi with itself. But of course it's the DMs final call.

 

[Tormyr]

FYI, Jeremy Crawford has said the multiclass rules are not intended to let a class multi with itself. But of course it's the DMs final call.

Definitely, but I think he said that more to protect people from losing too much to the double-dip from stuff that does not get better with a second pass through than anything else.

It's been a while since I looked at the ranger. swapping an offense for a defense option might work for the hunter, but its up to the DM.

 

[blueherald]

I would not allow doubling back, or multiclass with yourself again. I might, with experienced players, allow access to all the 3rd level paths/specialzations within the class, but you still don't get everything. You get a feature at the appproriate levels and can pick from any/all the paths, but you still only get N features totasl. And if at 11th level a feature improves a 6th level feature you didn't take, will you just limited yourself out of that improvement by not having the prereq. So go ahead and be an Eldritch Battle Master, but you are going to have fewer Superiority Dice and Maneuvers, and Spell Slots/Spells than the purists.

And like I said, I'd only do this with experienced players who had played "everything" already, and only after I did more analysis on it.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Is there any way, homebrew or RAW, to double back and get a class feature you passed up? Let's say I have a ranger, and I want Colossus Slayer AND Horde breaker. Would you let one of your players sacrifice a Defensive tactic at 7th to go back and get one they passed up?

The only way by RAW is to get that same feature from a different class, e.g. Fighting Styles or Expertise.

If you were my player... eh, I'd probably let you sacrifice your 11th level offensive ability for it, but not your defensive tactic from 7th. Needs some thematic resonance, and sacrificing a strong offensive ability for another fairly strong offensive ability seems thematic.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I would allow anyone to swap out one choice for another from the same level. So they could swap Colossus Slayer for Hordebreaker, but never have both.

I'd perhaps also ask them to wait a level -- so, e.g., they declare when they level to 7 that they want the switch, and it would come into effect when they level to 8 (so as to prevent them thinking they can hop around depending on the specific foe they are about to face).

 

[orderofthings]

I allow PCs at 20+ level to take additional class features, either from their subclass or another within their base class, as epic boons.

This is probably closest to what I had in mind. It's not so much that I was planning some offense-only build, it just seemed weird that a ranger who picks Horde Breaker will NEVER get the Colossus Slayer ability.

Also, as a DM I wouldn't allow rangers to multiclass ranger, only because everyone would switch to Hunter after they get their animal companion and we would have accidentally fixed the 5e Beast-master.