DR wigginess

[hong]

I understand why they do it the way it is for creature DR. But I agree it justs doesn't work when applied to this item. An already overpriced item becomes useless when used as it is intended.

Well, let's just see what this "overpriced" item does. It protects against
- orcs
- fire giants
- vampires
- liches
- red dragons

... to name a few. It basically protects against anything that isn't an evil outsider and doesn't have an unholy weapon. How on earth this translates into "useless" is beyond me.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Well, let's just see what this "overpriced" item does. It protects against
- orcs
- fire giants
- vampires
- liches
- red dragons

... to name a few. It basically protects against anything that isn't an evil outsider and doesn't have an unholy weapon. How on earth this translates into "useless" is beyond me.

Useless relative to the cost, yes. By the wealth guidelines, it could be the prized item of a 15th+ level character. I have gone up against CR 10 threats that will cut through DR 5 like a blow torch through warm butter. I can guess how well it will hold up against CR 15 threats.

 

[hong]

Useless relative to the cost, yes. By the wealth guidelines, it could be the prized item of a 15th+ level character. I have gone up against CR 10 threats that will cut through DR 5 like a blow torch through warm butter. I can guess how well it will hold up against CR 15 threats.

... not, of course, that that had anything to do with the point of this thread.

 

[Gnimish88]

Well, let's just see what this "overpriced" item does. It protects against
- orcs
- fire giants
- vampires
- liches
- red dragons

... to name a few. It basically protects against anything that isn't an evil outsider and doesn't have an unholy weapon. How on earth this translates into "useless" is beyond me.

Now consider this, the one with DR5/Good protects you from everything you are ever likely to face for the exact same price. Which one are YOU likely to choose to wear, given a choice?

It isn't that the DR5/Evil isn't good, it is just that DR5/Evil is better. For the same price.

 

[hong]

Now consider this, the one with DR5/Good protects you from everything you are ever likely to face for the exact same price. Which one are YOU likely to choose to wear, given a choice?

It isn't that the DR5/Evil isn't good, it is just that DR5/Evil is better. For the same price.

To be consistent with other items that have alignment-dependent effects, the mantle of faith should make you gain negative levels if your alignment doesn't match. That would remove this silly loophole.

 

[DragonShadow]

Why even argue it? Somebody already brought up that by wearing the Mantle of Faith, you become infused with the power of good and holiness. Essentially, by wearing the mantle, you are becoming a fake-Good Outsider.

Are you telling me then that a Paladin, on his holy quest to destroy evil, would rather be infused with Unholy energy just so he can get DR 5 against anything he might fight except his allies will be able to (if they chose) ignore it?

THAT makes no sense.


Any -good- creature would balk at the notion of wearing anything unholy, just as any -evil- creature would balk at the notion of wearing anything holy. It's not a pragmatic choice, unless you happen to be neutral, or maybe CG or CE.

In either case, the fact remains that you don't wear them to combat what they -dont- protect you against, you wear them to combat what they -do- protect you against.

-_- I don't understand people sometimes...

 

[Gnimish88]

Why even argue it? Somebody already brought up that by wearing the Mantle of Faith, you become infused with the power of good and holiness. Essentially, by wearing the mantle, you are becoming a fake-Good Outsider.

Are you telling me then that a Paladin, on his holy quest to destroy evil, would rather be infused with Unholy energy just so he can get DR 5 against anything he might fight except his allies will be able to (if they chose) ignore it?

THAT makes no sense.


Any -good- creature would balk at the notion of wearing anything unholy, just as any -evil- creature would balk at the notion of wearing anything holy. It's not a pragmatic choice, unless you happen to be neutral, or maybe CG or CE.

In either case, the fact remains that you don't wear them to combat what they -dont- protect you against, you wear them to combat what they -do- protect you against.

-_- I don't understand people sometimes...

Okay, let's flip this around a little. You are creating an item to provide you with DR. Don't have the shirt of demonskin to reference, but the Mantle of Faith only requires Stoneskin and radiates strong abjuration (good). It seems reasonable that the flipside item would pretty much be the same thing, except evil (correct me if I am wrong on this). Nothing is said about infusing one with energy of any kind, and I would assume that a evil cleric (for example) would in no way have his personal Detect Evil rating effected by having a mantle of Faith on. So, why could not one simple create an item of DR/evil with something less unsavory then, say demonskin (if one takes the name literally), say, an amulet of one of the lower planes' metals from Arms and Equipment (which I don't have handy)? Does the item have a evil aura of it's own? Why would a good character not do this, since this will allow them to more effectively fight their foes?

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

The shirt of demonskin in the Miniatures handbook does not radiate evil. (At least it doesn't in its description.)

Besides, even if it did radiate evil, a neutral character would benefit more from it than the mantle of faith.

Any exalted and/or paladin creature would balk at the notion of wearing anything unholy

Fixed that for you. A good character can do some minor evil actions.

To be consistent with other items that have alignment-dependent effects, the mantle of faith should make you gain negative levels if your alignment doesn't match. That would remove this silly loophole.

That's a good idea.

 

[fnork de sporg]

No where in the description of Mantle of Faith do I see the phrase "infuses the wearer with holy energy", nor do I see anything bad guys not being able to wear one.

 

[DreamChaser]

...so the semi concensus is...

if it makes my character more powerful but doesn't fit into the internal concept of Good and Evil energies awesome but if I can't use it to make me as powerful as possible, it doesn't matter how well the explanation fits into the internal continuity of the Good v. Evil energy paradigm.

Sheesh!

Powerful good is a force can create a field of force that repels those things which are not opposed to it...as can powerful evil. The opposite forces cancel each other out.

And on another note...don't the rules say that the natural attacks of creatures automatically have the ability to overcome the natural DR of the creature? So demons would inherently be able to claw thru the DR of their type?

DC