Dragon 338: Returning to Athas, part1

[ProfessorCirno]

Perhaps I can encompass KB's problem in one quote.

But we think it’s important for someone who’s new to the D&D game with 4th Edition to find many/most of the things they regard as being in the core of the D&D game in the Dark Sun setting.

While perhaps not the Eladrin themselves is the main problem, this part is. Dark Sun is meant to be drastically and markably different from other settings.

 

[lukelightning]

I think many of us view the feywild as a sort of mirror image of the prime material plane (yeah, I know they don't call it that any more... what is the name of the regular plane of existence now?); so it stands to reason that the feywild of Athas is like Athas, but even worse. Take all the dangers of a desert and add in dune hags, cyclops, fomorians, etc.

The eladrin, in my mind, would reflect this. I see them as desert fey... living secretly in the dunes, guarding places of fey power. They are a hidden, unknown threat; preferring to make people "disappear" rather than make open attacks on people violating their territory. The "special effect" of their feystep is they sink down into the sand and pop up out somewhere else.

 

[MrMyth]

While perhaps not the Eladrin themselves is the main problem, this part is. Dark Sun is meant to be drastically and markably different from other settings.

Well, yes, but that differences is underscores by its familiarity. Having some small cannibals roaming the land isn't nearly as shocking as cannibal halflings.

For a new player, who is familiar with the 4E concepts and races, being able to enter the setting and see the races he knows will make it more accessible to him - while at the same time, seeing how those races are twisted and changed, will really highlight that this isn't D&D as he knows it.

The original setting took the the races the players of the time were familiar with, and changed them into versions appropriate for Dark Sun. 4E is doing the same thing - how is that any different?

Finally, keep in mind that the original concept for Dark Sun was to have only entirely new races, and no familiar ones at all. No elves, dwarves, halflings. But the Powers That Be said they needed to be included, and so we got the Dark Sun versions of them.

So anyone who is complaining about dragonborn, eladrin, and tieflings in 4E Dark Sun - I assume you feel that the presence of elves, dwarves and halflings in the original Dark Sun was equally a travesty, and that those races and the reimagining of them brought nothing at all to the setting?

Right?

 

[Mort_Q]

I'll be happy as long as leave out Drow.

 

[lukelightning]

I'll be happy as long as leave out Drow.

What if drow were stuck being the main food source of cannibal halflings? Mmmmm, Drizz't MacNuggets!

 

[Nahat Anoj]

The original setting took the the races the players of the time were familiar with, and changed them into versions appropriate for Dark Sun. 4E is doing the same thing - how is that any different?

This. IMO, what's iconic to Dark Sun isn't what races are in it so much as the process of twisting races to meet its own harsh and cruel assumptions. Dark Sun is like asking the question "What if?" as opposed to the answers you get.

 

[Wik]

Well, yes, but that differences is underscores by its familiarity. Having some small cannibals roaming the land isn't nearly as shocking as cannibal halflings.

For a new player, who is familiar with the 4E concepts and races, being able to enter the setting and see the races he knows will make it more accessible to him - while at the same time, seeing how those races are twisted and changed, will really highlight that this isn't D&D as he knows it.

The original setting took the the races the players of the time were familiar with, and changed them into versions appropriate for Dark Sun. 4E is doing the same thing - how is that any different?

Finally, keep in mind that the original concept for Dark Sun was to have only entirely new races, and no familiar ones at all. No elves, dwarves, halflings. But the Powers That Be said they needed to be included, and so we got the Dark Sun versions of them.

So anyone who is complaining about dragonborn, eladrin, and tieflings in 4E Dark Sun - I assume you feel that the presence of elves, dwarves and halflings in the original Dark Sun was equally a travesty, and that those races and the reimagining of them brought nothing at all to the setting?

Right?

For what it's worth, I probably would have loved that "original" dark sun even more. A lot of those humanoid races in the Monster Manuals were pretty damned cool. I mean, Jozhal? Awesome. Nikaal? Awesomer. Villichi? Amazingly Awesome. Ssurans? Pretty good... except they sound like a Phil Collins song.

***

For what it's worth, I'm with KM on this one. I'm not worried too much about reimaginings, but there are problems that can arise when one tries to mesh planes into the setting. The Feywild, simply through it's existence, is taking away from what should be one of the core conceits of the setting - that Athas is the focal point. There are no places - better OR worse - that you can hide away to. You are born on Athas, and you will die on athas... you will never leave.

It goes back to the source material (a combo of post apocalyptic literature inspired by the cold war and sword and sorcery in the likes of "Zothique"). There are no other planes. There is only here. And here is dying.

I'm not as drastic about the situation as KM is, though. I know there will be elements I hate - like Blink Elves and Tieflings. They will be dropped from my game. I'm already working on my own house rules for Dark Sun (many of which are changes I want to make to fix my quibbles with 4e). Really, all I expect from the new setting are some good monsters, at least a few mechanics worth stealing, and the like.

I do find it a bit disconcerting that all of the designers for the setting, when all is said and done, are basically saying this: "I'm a HUGE fan of the setting! Super huge! Love it to pieces! Now, look at all the changes we're making, to fit it into the 4e rules...."

 

[Zaukrie]

I can't wait for this book. I loved the first iteration, and this one sounds well designed to me. The aversion to change in our society is mind boggling. It's how many years, and how many editions of the game later? Of course some things will be different. The beauty of this game is that you really do get to choose the rules and fluff you want to use. Is there any game in anyone's home that is run straight by the book (for those who have played for years and years)? I don't think I've ever been accused of being a fanboy, I can be highly critical of particular decisions. But, overall, I'm thrilled that we are getting an updated version of Darksun, making it about 1000x times easier for me to play in it again. I guess I'm just really glass 3/4 full on this concept.

 

[Obryn]

I do find it a bit disconcerting that all of the designers for the setting, when all is said and done, are basically saying this: "I'm a HUGE fan of the setting! Super huge! Love it to pieces! Now, look at all the changes we're making, to fit it into the 4e rules...."

So the proper actions of a fan releasing a version of an old setting for a new edition should be ... what? To simply re-release it verbatim with a few mechanical changes?

-O

 

[Greg K]

So the proper actions of a fan releasing a version of an old setting for a new edition should be ... what? To simply re-release it verbatim with a few mechanical changes?

-O

If fan is the company producing the official version? In my opinion, yes. Then, I am with KM and Aristotle on this one.